8th U.S. National Bonsai Exhibition, Rochester, NY, USA, September 9-10, 2023
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jal777
Yamadori
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What a waste of time...the same people would get all the awards...it is a tree show not a people show.
nice group on a slab but EXTREMELY awkwardly displayed... also redundant with the use of 3 slabs. Every time I looked at it I thought it was going to tumble...
chicago1980
Omono
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I completely appreciate your sentiment.
My difference is the judging is about the tree, stand, display, accent, and composition.
Not about your time vs their time with the tree.
In my view the display wins the award.
As for Colins sentiment, I do love the DIY culture.
coltranem
Chumono
So this was my first show and here are my thoughts.
1. There were some really great trees in this show. However even as a relative beginner (only been in bonsai 6 years) I agree with above comments that there were some trees that maybe were not the caliber required for this show.
2. The judging and awards did seem inconsistent. There were some winning trees I could definitely say no wonder that one won and others were really that won.
3. The vending area was amazing lots of great material and pots.
4. The venue was horrible. Not just the heat and poor air flow but the acoustics as well. The one demo I saw "Corin's" was practically drowned out by the noise from the sales area. At least the parking wasn't bad and they display area was nice.
5. They need to improve all the logistics of ticket sales, lanyard distribution, banquet. For a new person nothing was intuitive.
6. Meeting new people at the happy hour and sitting at a random table at the banquet was fun. The rest of the banquet was pitiful.
7. I am hoping to see the pacific bonsai expo next year.
1. There were some really great trees in this show. However even as a relative beginner (only been in bonsai 6 years) I agree with above comments that there were some trees that maybe were not the caliber required for this show.
2. The judging and awards did seem inconsistent. There were some winning trees I could definitely say no wonder that one won and others were really that won.
3. The vending area was amazing lots of great material and pots.
4. The venue was horrible. Not just the heat and poor air flow but the acoustics as well. The one demo I saw "Corin's" was practically drowned out by the noise from the sales area. At least the parking wasn't bad and they display area was nice.
5. They need to improve all the logistics of ticket sales, lanyard distribution, banquet. For a new person nothing was intuitive.
6. Meeting new people at the happy hour and sitting at a random table at the banquet was fun. The rest of the banquet was pitiful.
7. I am hoping to see the pacific bonsai expo next year.
chicago1980
Omono
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As a vendor this show was amazeballs. I basically sold out 250+ pots, most in the first hour. I will be back to vend.
As a two-time attendee I will echo everything @Ruddigger said: the show can aim higher. I understand bill's intent and there are many great aspects to the show. But half of the trees didnt belong in OUR National show. I get it, it's hard to ship great trees to Rochester, and that's part of the problem. What was National level were the community and networking and friendships I built, and the variety of trees and displays. This is the de facto meeting place for American bonsai and that will not change anytime soon. The judging was questionable at best. I changed my shirt twice because the venue is a drab sauna. There were few west coast entries because they are going to be at the PBE.
It is pronounced Pie-toon@Pitoon
I find this to be an issue with all show that pursue a annual or biannual schedule, especially in small niche concepts like bonsai.
These types of events and schedules will always have a quality vs quantity challenges over the life time of the show.
As an example the Kokufu exhibit which may be the highest level show in the world has the same issue of quality vs quantity.
I cannot offer a better long term solution that avoids some of the pitfalls of these types of competitive art events.
As a person who has participated as a sponsor, guests, fan, and artist in several arts, it seems to be a constant challenge to obtain and display the highest for of the quality art.
Cheers to seeing more great displays and trees over the long term of every show.
I find these forums can be an excellent place for commentary, feedback, and innovation of ideas and strategies.
Sansokuu
Chumono
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I can’t agree with this opinion. Ultimately the original seller loses out by being taken advantage of. John Eads had great priced bonsai starter material online and someone bought it all then flipped it the next week for double. We have had this happen to us with our pottery as well. It is fine if someone buys a pot and changes their mind, it is another to buy up a significant chunk of our inventory to flip it, which not only gouges the customer, but also, it poorly represents us if people think we were the ones dictating that price - in addition, we don’t benefit, and hobbyists and other folks miss out too. It simply isn’t fair. Art galleries or resellers that do consignment, work out contracts that the maker agrees with, but if none of our input, philosophy, wishes etc. are taken into consideration it is a bit poor taste and disrespectful. We’re not some estate sale to sniff out flippable gems from. But we have no issue with working out consignment or acceptable markup from retailers/bonsai artists. Both of these *outside* of a show, where the point is to sell pots to paying attendees. We have had resellers approach us at the end of a show to buy up what is left or offer consignment, and that is ok.
This past year an older bonsai gentleman was selling his personal collection and not only did a bonsai business haggle him down, they then flipped his trees just a week later. He was so heartbroken he was taken advantage of and it was hard not to feel bad for him.
We might just have to put out a disclaimer that our pots are not for retail reselling, and if we catch evidence of it being flipped they get hammer banned like what @Shogun610 experienced - I don’t think Nao would like us doing that because then people have opinions or get ideas, but imo it would help avoid drama. Maybe I can just put it as small print at the check out or a disclaimer if you are a retailer talk to us about it. Communication, right?
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Hartinez
Masterpiece
I agree John. Though I think maybe his intention was the apparent precariousness? Not sure. The trees looked good in that rock imo but For me there were too many materials stacked on each other. Too many abrupt textural changes paired with too many abrupt directional changes. I Applaud him for trying new things though.
shohin_branches
Chumono
If the trees that ribbon are styled and maintained by four people in bonsai, even if owned by other people, what's the incentive for regular Joes to take time off of work and truck a tree to nationals?
Sansokuu
Chumono
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Well, they could have the financial ability to hire a Joe who transports for a living.
Not everyone can, which is why Mirai’s covered wagon service was so critical to getting trees to national, but I think if there was a tree transporting network people can pool resources and transport their trees somewhat affordably. Mirai charged $500 a tree, but depending on size of the tree and what else is the cargo I think prices could be lower. It was unfortunate because we got our van service scheduled so late (mid July), by then many locals had made up their mind not to send trees. We had plenty of room for maybe transporting at least 4 big exhibition quality bonsai, and the van was climate controlled, but I literally had to contact people individually to see if they were interested. Coming back we picked up trees from folks who walked up to our table and were like ‘we hear you might have a van…?’ It was stressful waiting for all the pieces to fall into place but they did and I was happy to help people bring home fabulous trees and with kid glove service. Our van is currently doing the round trip back from Nationals and we clown car filled it with trees and bonsai stuff with other folks. Endless thanks to @IzzyG for recommending these guys to us! I’ll have to ask our local club to catalog them as a great resource for future shows. Mirai had a huge negative impact on West Coast representation at Nationals, and maybe it was a one time thing, but I hope people know there *are* alternatives.
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chicago1980
Omono
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Clown car filled. That should be the transport company logo.Well, they could have the financial ability to hire a Joe who transports for a living.
Wood
Chumono
I really struggle with this excuse. The date of this show was known well in advance. You'd think that Ryan Neil of all people would put this in his calendar and schedule things around it
That maple was a display of massive horticultural skill and bonsai technique, but I couldn't stop looking at the missing branches on the left main trunk and the missing apex. Lucas' arakawa does need a couple years of refinement and development, but it didn't feel like it was missing any big parts to me. Just a side note, the arakawa was started from an air layer and then grown out further. Still quite an old tree to have such thorough cork bark all the way up into the apex
Wood
Chumono
They really jammed trees into the show this year and did a major disservice to the exhibitors who have worked so hard. I volunteered for setup on Thursday and Friday. At noon on Friday, we were told to pull out more tables because everything was full and trees were still arriving. It was a haphazard scramble to find a place to put them all, and then those displays looked like crap next to the other trees with spacious setups.
Bill V, of course, still had 10-12 "for exhibit only" trees. Those should be the last trees to fill the tables, IMO, and only if there's space left
The no photo policy is annoying and petulant as hell. The exhibition album doesn't ever put the accent plant or tree into the official photos, and those are incredibly important to the whole display. It's called a six-point shohin display for a reason! The sixth tree is dropped from the photos of all those displays. And @SouthernMaple is exactly right that someone standing out in the aisle isn't going to match Joe Noga's camera and professional lighting
roberthu
Chumono
By this logic, no retailer should exist...I can’t agree with this opinion. Ultimately the original seller loses out by being taken advantage of. John Eads had great priced bonsai starter material online and someone bought it all then flipped it the next week for double. We have had this happen to us with our pottery as well. It is fine if someone buys a pot and changes their mind, it is another to buy up a significant chunk of our inventory to flip it, which not only gouges the customer, but also, it poorly represents us if people think we were the ones dictating that price - in addition, we don’t benefit, and hobbyists and other folks miss out too. It simply isn’t fair. Art galleries or resellers that do consignment, work out contracts that the maker agrees with, but if none of our input, philosophy, wishes etc. are taken into consideration it is a bit poor taste and disrespectful. We’re not some estate sale to sniff out flippable gems from. But we have no issue with working out consignment or acceptable markup from retailers/bonsai artists. Both of these *outside* of a show, where the point is to sell pots to paying attendees. We have had resellers approach us at the end of a show to buy up what is left or offer consignment, and that is ok.
This past year an older bonsai gentleman was selling his personal collection and not only did a bonsai business haggle him down, they then flipped his trees just a week later. He was so heartbroken he was taken advantage of and it was hard not to feel bad for him.
We might just have to put out a disclaimer that our pots are not for retail reselling, and if we catch evidence of it being flipped they get hammer banned like what @Shogun610 experienced - I don’t think Nao would like us doing that because then people have opinions or get ideas, but imo it would help avoid drama. Maybe I can just put it as small print at the check out or a disclaimer if you are a retailer talk to us about it. Communication, right?
Shogun610
Masterpiece
I wish I took photos
They really jammed trees into the show this year and did a major disservice to the exhibitors who have worked so hard. I volunteered for setup on Thursday and Friday. At noon on Friday, we were told to pull out more tables because everything was full and trees were still arriving. It was a haphazard scramble to find a place to put them all, and then those displays looked like crap next to the other trees with spacious setups.
Bill V, of course, still had 10-12 "for exhibit only" trees. Those should be the last trees to fill the tables, IMO, and only if there's space left
The no photo policy is annoying and petulant as hell. The exhibition album doesn't ever put the accent plant or tree into the official photos, and those are incredibly important to the whole display. It's called a six-point shohin display for a reason! The sixth tree is dropped from the photos of all those displays. And @SouthernMaple is exactly right that someone standing out in the aisle isn't going to match Joe Noga's camera and professional lighting
BrianBay9
Masterpiece
I can’t agree with this opinion. Ultimately the original seller loses out by being taken advantage of. John Eads had great priced bonsai starter material online and someone bought it all then flipped it the next week for double. We have had this happen to us with our pottery as well. It is fine if someone buys a pot and changes their mind, it is another to buy up a significant chunk of our inventory to flip it, which not only gouges the customer, but also, it poorly represents us if people think we were the ones dictating that price - in addition, we don’t benefit, and hobbyists and other folks miss out too. It simply isn’t fair. Art galleries or resellers that do consignment, work out contracts that the maker agrees with, but if none of our input, philosophy, wishes etc. are taken into consideration it is a bit poor taste and disrespectful. We’re not some estate sale to sniff out flippable gems from. But we have no issue with working out consignment or acceptable markup from retailers/bonsai artists. Both of these *outside* of a show, where the point is to sell pots to paying attendees. We have had resellers approach us at the end of a show to buy up what is left or offer consignment, and that is ok.
This past year an older bonsai gentleman was selling his personal collection and not only did a bonsai business haggle him down, they then flipped his trees just a week later. He was so heartbroken he was taken advantage of and it was hard not to feel bad for him.
We might just have to put out a disclaimer that our pots are not for retail reselling, and if we catch evidence of it being flipped they get hammer banned like what @Shogun610 experienced - I don’t think Nao would like us doing that because then people have opinions or get ideas, but imo it would help avoid drama. Maybe I can just put it as small print at the check out or a disclaimer if you are a retailer talk to us about it. Communication, right?
This opinion seems strange to me. A potter (or any artist) sells their items rapidly at a price he/she deems fair. The potter is happy. The buyer puts many of them back up for sale at an increased price, taking the risk that they may have to hold that inventory for an extended period of time. He/she expects a profit commensurate with that risk. Doesn't seem to be much different than suppliers selling through a retail shop.
Shogun610
Masterpiece
That this logic people are scumbags , and shouldn’t be lazy if they can’t get items directly from the retailer.or shouldn’t make a profit off someone else’s work if they don’t give that money back to the creator
roberthu
Chumono
May I ask why did your studio sell those imports at much below market prices?
Shogun610
Masterpiece
Because we are of the philosophy that within reason materials should be accessible .. and sold at a fair price. It’s about building not blocking
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