2015 Mugo
- Thread starter Paradox
- Start date
jk_lewis
Masterpiece
Nice trunk. Cant tell much about the base. There's a lot of bare branch before you finally reach the foliage. I suspect you have a bit of work ahead of you. (All this from one who knows little about pines.)
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Nice. Good looking mugo. How large?
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
I didnt get a chance to put a ruler on it but Ill try to later today.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I'de go after it like a dog after raw meat. A lot of potential. I would, and this is just me do the same at your peril, I would cut the tree back to the first branch coming off at the top right making that branch the new trunk branches and apex. Jin the rest of the tree---that's just me. This tree was created from a similar image.
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This one as well but little more complicated than the one above.
This is the way it looked a few years ago
The point being: Most Mugo Pine bonsai are the result of eliminating a lot of material in the beginning down to a point where you can develop a single trunk line with some interest and taper to it. Most Mugos grown from original material without alterations, unless mountain grown for a couple of hundred years, do not end up making credible bonsai.
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This one as well but little more complicated than the one above.
This is the way it looked a few years ago
The point being: Most Mugo Pine bonsai are the result of eliminating a lot of material in the beginning down to a point where you can develop a single trunk line with some interest and taper to it. Most Mugos grown from original material without alterations, unless mountain grown for a couple of hundred years, do not end up making credible bonsai.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
That was pretty much what I was thinking Vance. I would like to repot it this year, the soil it is in isnt great and the pot is damn heavy. Unless you think it could handle a repot and removing that whole left side this year, Ill probably cut the middle branch this year along with a repot, If its happy next year, cut the remainder of the left branch.
I still didnt get a ruler on it Mike, but I did eyeball it and estimate the trunk is about 2 inches across the soil.
I still didnt get a ruler on it Mike, but I did eyeball it and estimate the trunk is about 2 inches across the soil.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Nice. I knew Vance would like this one. The tree within is right there screaming come get me.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
It is probably 2 to 3 gallon, just my favorite size. Not too big to have to work in stages to cut it down or so small------you have to work in stages to grow it up. Good workable Pre-Bonsai size. It's small enough you can find a solution to make it into a shohin. It's large enough you can find a solution today that will turn into a good tree in a couple of seasons.
As to repotting the tree. If this was mine I would do what I usually do. I would reduce the soil ball down by 50% right after Father's day, late June. Do not remove the 50% by digging it out and cutting it off with scissors. Find a good sharp saw and cut it off. Quick and clean with not additional stress on the root system. You can also remove the upper branches as long as you leave a stub at the base where, the one branch you are keeping emerges, assuming that you are going to keep my design idea. Anything you want to do is OK but just remember; think small and succeed large.
Comb out the circling roots growing around the soil ball just enough to free them up, do not dig into what is left of the old soil ball. I would then plant the tree in a colander with good quality bonsai soil to give it a chance to develop some fine feeder roots in abundance so that the soil ball can be reduced again enough to put the tree in an acceptable bonsai pot. During its time in the colander you can prune and wire the tree and start to establish its shape.
Remember one important thing. Once you cut it every body will recognize that you have a good tree worth the effort to make it into a good bonsai. Every body will be coming out of the wood work making suggestions about what to do and when to do it. The important thing is; this is not a Japanese Black Pine and can not be handled in the same way many who grow Japanese Black Pine are accustomed to do, and those who still believe that working with all two needle Pines is the same as working with JBP's. I have said it before that more trees are killed by kindness than by neglect. Do not submit to the kindness of those who will undoubtedly tell you what you are doing is wrong, sadly most of those individuals do not have a Mugo Pine long term.
As to repotting the tree. If this was mine I would do what I usually do. I would reduce the soil ball down by 50% right after Father's day, late June. Do not remove the 50% by digging it out and cutting it off with scissors. Find a good sharp saw and cut it off. Quick and clean with not additional stress on the root system. You can also remove the upper branches as long as you leave a stub at the base where, the one branch you are keeping emerges, assuming that you are going to keep my design idea. Anything you want to do is OK but just remember; think small and succeed large.
Comb out the circling roots growing around the soil ball just enough to free them up, do not dig into what is left of the old soil ball. I would then plant the tree in a colander with good quality bonsai soil to give it a chance to develop some fine feeder roots in abundance so that the soil ball can be reduced again enough to put the tree in an acceptable bonsai pot. During its time in the colander you can prune and wire the tree and start to establish its shape.
Remember one important thing. Once you cut it every body will recognize that you have a good tree worth the effort to make it into a good bonsai. Every body will be coming out of the wood work making suggestions about what to do and when to do it. The important thing is; this is not a Japanese Black Pine and can not be handled in the same way many who grow Japanese Black Pine are accustomed to do, and those who still believe that working with all two needle Pines is the same as working with JBP's. I have said it before that more trees are killed by kindness than by neglect. Do not submit to the kindness of those who will undoubtedly tell you what you are doing is wrong, sadly most of those individuals do not have a Mugo Pine long term.
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Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
What' a' ya' know??????! it worked. I copied your image and posted a larger version of it. I am a photo hog, I always go for the largest images I can load.
At the moment this tree is doing very well. The length and character of the needles seems to indicate the tree is getting the right amount of water and it likes it's location in the sun. The needles on a Mugo should look just like this one.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
Dont worry Vance. Ive been following your repotting schedule with all my Mugos so I will wait until after fathers day before I work on this one.
Looking at the tree, the left side (Y shaped branch(s)) is probably at least 50% of the foliage mass. Would you risk removing that much all at once with a repot on top of that? Or better to do it in two steps a year apart (assuming the tree is happy the second year)? Ive removed that much at one time on another tree and the tree survived, but my inclination is to go the safer route and do it over 2 years.
Looking at the tree, the left side (Y shaped branch(s)) is probably at least 50% of the foliage mass. Would you risk removing that much all at once with a repot on top of that? Or better to do it in two steps a year apart (assuming the tree is happy the second year)? Ive removed that much at one time on another tree and the tree survived, but my inclination is to go the safer route and do it over 2 years.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
In a word YES! --- as long as it is done in the summer at the same time as the repotting. I know some would argue this point but the two balance each other. I have another theory that removing the branches stimulates the roots to heal the wound. Either way I have done this and more at the same time many times to no ill effect. I would cut just above the Y on both branches so essentially you will have a brand new sling shot to look at till in a couple of years you decide to jin it all out or cut it flush to the trunk BUT leave the stub and save the tree.
How are your Mugos doing? I am really excited about your successes.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
My other mugos seem to be doing fine. The nice one I got from Home Depot last year is all green and happy. I am going to work on gettingthe the apex more defined on that one this year.
The other two have a few discolored needles, but nothing bad. They also have some back budding going on. One has 2 big branches/trunks which Ive finally decided which one I will keep and cut the other this year. The other one is the one that had some harsh reduction 2 years ago. It will be allowed to just grow this year.
I just moved them all outside to start getting some sun since the night temps will be above freezing for the next few days. I am probably going to treat everyone with anitfungal when it stops raining as a preventative.
The other two have a few discolored needles, but nothing bad. They also have some back budding going on. One has 2 big branches/trunks which Ive finally decided which one I will keep and cut the other this year. The other one is the one that had some harsh reduction 2 years ago. It will be allowed to just grow this year.
I just moved them all outside to start getting some sun since the night temps will be above freezing for the next few days. I am probably going to treat everyone with anitfungal when it stops raining as a preventative.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I don't use anything stronger than Captan. That seems to work well. I would love to see your other Mugos. It's the old Ron White gambit.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
Captan might be banned here, Ill have to check.
*edit* It is allowed, Ill have to see if I can find it.
I have copper and another bonide product, I dont recall what it is so Ill have to look.
*edit* It is allowed, Ill have to see if I can find it.
I have copper and another bonide product, I dont recall what it is so Ill have to look.
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Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
You've seen all of them at one time or another.
Here is the mugo I got last year.
Youll probably remember it when you see the thread.
http://bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/mugo-pine-yes-virgina.15814/
Here is the mugo I got last year.
Youll probably remember it when you see the thread.
http://bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/mugo-pine-yes-virgina.15814/
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
Update on this Mugo
July before thinning and pruning:
Today. Pruned and thinned a week ago:
Cut back a bunch of branches to newer growth closer to the trunk and made some other choices.
Still kinda bushy but I dont want to take more off at this point.
It will get rewired this fall.
July before thinning and pruning:
Today. Pruned and thinned a week ago:
Cut back a bunch of branches to newer growth closer to the trunk and made some other choices.
Still kinda bushy but I dont want to take more off at this point.
It will get rewired this fall.
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Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I would seriously consider clipping off all of the downward growing needles and any unwanted growth like that in the crotches etc. This will open the tree up to light and further back budding. The tree looks very health and vigorous.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
I agree...
Seems too healthy to waste the energy...
The one branch on mine that I thinned all the way to good nexts...
The buds are just as strong as the rest.
I will say that backbudding is better where only the new growth was cut off as Vance outlines.
Across the board of 5.
Wonderful these trees!
Sorce
Seems too healthy to waste the energy...
The one branch on mine that I thinned all the way to good nexts...
The buds are just as strong as the rest.
I will say that backbudding is better where only the new growth was cut off as Vance outlines.
Across the board of 5.
Wonderful these trees!
Sorce
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
Might be hard to tell from the picture, but I did remove all the downward pointing needles and upward pointing ones as well. Might have left some on the very ends of the branches around the tip though. I also cut back several long branches to growth that was closer to the trunk and was far enough along to support the branch.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
If the tree was mine I would be considering a 50% reduction of foliage, that's just me. Get rid of a lot of unnecessary over burden and open up the structure to see the inner branching. I don't understand why, with your experience with Mugo Pines, you are being so cautious with the tree. I noticed that with the Mugos you posted earlier they seemed to lack commitment. No insult intended but I have to call it like I see it understanding that you know the tree.
