$100 Japanese Maple

[drew33998]

View attachment 39990View attachment 39991View attachment 39992View attachment 39990View attachment 39991View attachment 39992Stopped by Lowes today just to browse and look what I found. Any advice on styling? I'm thinking either chop to one trunk(one with more movement) or just chopping to two trunks at next years pre-bud. Also when I chop should I keep in the same container to let it really push as much new growth as it can and let it grow freely for a couple years to heal over the scars then chop a little higher and repot at that time. Also the tree has many girdling roots, which I will have to cut or correct if possible. Thanks

 

[jkd2572]

I'm thinking one of those trunks has to go. I would air layer one of them off. It will probably be the better tree in the future as it won't have the big scar where you removed the air layer and by air layering you could have a nice radial root spread on the tree you air layer. You could also air layer both trunks then chop the original trunk below the Y. You would then have three trees.

 

[drew33998]

Thanks

I'm thinking one of those trunks has to go. I would air layer one of them off. It will probably be the better tree in the future as it won't have the big scar where you removed the air layer and by air layering you could have a nice radial root spread on the tree you air layer. You could also air layer both trunks then chop the original trunk below the Y. You would then have three trees.

Yes you air right. I didn't think of it at the time as I just got it. That would be a great idea. I was surprised to see it there as I just came from one of the more pricey nurseries looking for something that jumped out at me, but left empty handed. Went to Lowes to get some ant killer and this thing was sitting in the full florida sun, 95deg F+ today with the heat index, and was completely dry.

 

[drew33998]

Sorry but forgot to say this is "Glowing Embers." Supposedly it is more adaptable to our southern climate

 

[davetree]

Look for the graft. Some grafted varieties root more easily then others when layered. This is certainly grafted.

 

[Smoke]

Maybe this might be a good time to ask a question that has puzzled me for many years.

It is my understanding that to do bonsai to the best of ones ability, one would start with a piece of material that interests them, has a line they find appealing and can look at the material based on others in the nursery and make a valued judgement on the merits that best fit any of the pieces. In other words choose the best piece for the preconcieved idea.

With that said, I find that many people just willy nilly buy something, post a picture here the same day, and then ask what to do with it.

Am I missing something here?

Have I been doing it wrong all these years? Was I supposed to just choose a piece at random and hope like hell I could make something great out of it? Is having a preconcieved idea cheating?

 

[Paradox]

With that said, I find that many people just willy nilly buy something, post a picture here the same day, and then ask what to do with it.

Am I missing something here?

Have I been doing it wrong all these years? Was I supposed to just choose a piece at random and hope like hell I could make something great out of it? Is having a preconceived idea cheating?

People that are new to bonsai dont yet have the skills and experience necessary to look at a tree and see something in it, unless they are gifted with inborn bonsai talent. We are first told to "look for a trunk" then "look for roots". Sometimes we dont have access to bonsai nursery nearby or are afraid to spend $250+ on a tree that they are probably going to kill anyway. So when we do find something that looks like a trunk, we tend to buy it just to have something to learn on.

Sooner or later, we usually figure out that this type of material is not going to become quality material 99.9% of the time. We also start to get confidence in keeping things alive and we start seeking out better material with which to work with.
At least that has been my experience so far.

 

[iant]

I agree with Al. My first thought with questions like these is "what kind of tree are you looking to make?" How can you answer a question of what to do with a tree when you don't know whether this person is looking to make a fat short tapered tree or crooked eclectic tree or what? It's also impossible to give advice on this type of question without knowing whether the person wants to just jump right in and start trying to create branches tomorrow or if they have the patience to wait several years to develop a trunk.
But in the asker's defense, how do they know what they want if they don't know what the options are? You can't have a preconceived notion of what you'd like to do with a tree without knowing what's possible.

So my advice is to look a lot of photos online of japanese maple bonsai and decide what you like and then decide how much patience you have and then people can give you some specific advice about how to get there.

Ian

 

[Ris]

If this cant inspire you then what will?
www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTEch/ATAcer palmatum Japanese Maple Bonsai.html

Drew, that is not bad material to start with, air layer the straight trunk of 1st year, next spring after buds swell repot into we'll draining soil. Decide the height you want you're final look to be and then picture the tree with branches from there you will be able to cut the top off.
Now when the new buds burst and extend out select what you need and allow them to grow out,
Take your time and plan ahead what branch you want to keep.
Don't lose faith because of someone's empty words...

 

[Smoke]

If this cant inspire you then what will?
www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTEch/ATAcer palmatum Japanese Maple Bonsai.html

Drew, that is not bad material to start with, air layer the straight trunk of 1st year, next spring after buds swell repot into we'll draining soil. Decide the height you want you're final look to be and then picture the tree with branches from there you will be able to cut the top off.
Now when the new buds burst and extend out select what you need and allow them to grow out,
Take your time and plan ahead what branch you want to keep.
Don't lose faith because of someone's empty words...

Air layer? Right, I'm sure he has plenty of experience with that.


Great now you explained what Ris would do. Is that how it works? I jusy go down buy a plant post it on a Japanese forum and hope like hell Kobayashi responds with " decide the height, picture the tree with branches, and cut if off based on that"?

Sounds pretty easy, even a cave man could do it. Sounds like more of those empty words.

 

[Ris]

Air layer? Right, I'm sure he has plenty of experience with that.


Great now you explained what Ris would do. Is that how it works? I jusy go down buy a plant post it on a Japanese forum and hope like hell Kobayashi responds with " decide the height, picture the tree with branches, and cut if off based on that"?

Sounds pretty easy, even a cave man could do it. Sounds like more of those empty words.

Sure smoke anything you say...
Enjoy the hobby.

 

[Smoke]

I was driving by a yard sale the other day, and I found this guy selling some clay. I bought it and thought I could make bonsai pots.

Anyone got any ideas where I should start?

 

[Poink88]

I was driving by a yard sale the other day, and I found this guy selling some clay. I bought it and thought I could make bonsai pots.

Anyone got any ideas where I should start?

I really like thrown pots...start throwing it?

 

[Poink88]

On more serious note, I think there are good points to discuss here...both sides have merit. If we can stay reasonable and not be defensive or aggressive, something really good might come out of it. Might even change how we (as a group) respond to similar questions later.

 

[Adair M]

Drew,

What characteristic of this material attracted you? Was it the variety? The caliper of the trunk?

I ask because I would not have chosen this material as bonsai stock. But if you have a goal in mind, maybe it would be something you could be successful with.

I'll tell you what I see: A slingshot. The trunk from the soil to the Y has no taper. You said the nebari isn't very good. The two branches are about the same size, so that's a negative. If you cut one off, there's a big scar. Even if you cut off one of the two branches, you still haven't created any meaningful taper. So, the branch will have to be chopped. Another huge scar to heal. And, it's grafted. I'm not sure where, but any branches that emerge down low will have different foliage than the top of the tree.

My advice: Either plant the tree in the ground and enjoy it as a landscape tree, or take it back.

 

[Poink88]

My take on this tree purchase (as a newbie).

First, I can relate and (as Paradox stated) it is a mistake we newbies fall into. Seeing a plant that is more than just a stick excites us. Is it a good deal? I personally do not think so...but it is part of the tuition we pay to learn. I've done it a few times myself.

Is it a junk tree? I don't think so. You can get a better tree for sure but given this purchase experience, there are lessons that can be learned. What to look for next time (nebari, trunk, movement, taper, etc.). Maybe use it as a learning tree. Be it layering, grafting, wiring, bending, etc. Make it your Frankentree...I have a few of those. For all you know, this tree might teach you 90% of what you need about bonsai...much more than a perfect specimen could.

Can it be a good bonsai? In time, I believe it is a possibility.

That or I may just be delusional.

 

[tmmason10]

It's probably worth $100 as a landscape tree, but not worth that much as a bonsai. If you went to a reputable bonsai nursery and spent $100 on a Japanese maple that had been grown/trained to be a bonsai you would be so much better off. Chalk it up to part of the learning curve, I would get it in the ground when you can in your climate and go from there.

 

[coh]

It's probably worth $100 as a landscape tree, but not worth that much as a bonsai. If you went to a reputable bonsai nursery and spent $100 on a Japanese maple that had been grown/trained to be a bonsai you would be so much better off. Chalk it up to part of the learning curve, I would get it in the ground when you can in your climate and go from there.

I agree 100%! One could definitely find a tree that has been "prepared" for bonsai for this price. That would mean no graft (can't tell if/where it is on this tree), decent nebari/roots, etc. Another option is to join a club, members often sell trees of better (than this) quality for pretty good prices.

As for this tree...sure, it could be a good bonsai...some day! That day may be 20+ years down the road. The faults have been clearly stated. If I wound up with this tree (and I do have a couple that have similar attributes, though I paid much less), I'd probably do the following: (1) try to layer one of the two main branches/trunks - that alone would be a good learning experience if the OP hasn't done it (2) plant the tree in the ground because it's going to need to grow strongly for a number of years to heal over the scar(s) that will result from removing one (or both) of those large branches (3) make sure to work on the roots at planting time as I'm sure there will be lots of crossing, ugly roots in that pot.

Taking it back and looking for something more suitable is another option as well, as is just chopping the trunk below the fork and essentially starting from scratch.

Chris

 

[monza]

I was driving by a yard sale the other day, and I found this guy selling some clay. I bought it and thought I could make bonsai pots.

Anyone got any ideas where I should start?

I have clay like soil in my back yard I'm kinda partial to slab pots I think I'll get the shovel out. The pots would suit most my trees very well. Thanks for the inspiration!

 

[Adair M]

My take on this tree purchase (as a newbie).

First, I can relate and (as Paradox stated) it is a mistake we newbies fall into. Seeing a plant that is more than just a stick excites us. Is it a good deal? I personally do not think so...but it is part of the tuition we pay to learn. I've done it a few times myself.

Is it a junk tree? I don't think so. You can get a better tree for sure but given this purchase experience, there are lessons that can be learned. What to look for next time (nebari, trunk, movement, taper, etc.). Maybe use it as a learning tree. Be it layering, grafting, wiring, bending, etc. Make it your Frankentree...I have a few of those. For all you know, this tree might teach you 90% of what you need about bonsai...much more than a perfect specimen could.

Can it be a good bonsai? In time, I believe it is a possibility.

That or I may just be delusional.

Dario:

Do you read Peter Tea's blog? If not, you should. Go look at his most recent post. He shows an absolutely incredible trident maple he owned before he went to Japan, and now that he's back he's starting to work on it again. I've seen the tree in person. Six inches caliper, about 24 inches tall. Great taper. Great nebari.

Check out the blog. In it he says it will take about 10 to 15 years from where it is now to get it show worthy. Mind you, his tree has all the attributes that Drew's tree does not have: Caliper, taper, nebari, refined roots, healed scars, etc. So Drew has to do all that before he can even begin to start on what Peter says will take a decade to do: refine. So, let's say it takes a decade to build the trunk, then another 15 years to refine the tree. Will Drew think that it was worth 25 years to work on this tree? (And this is assuming that Drew has the knowledge that Peter Tea has to develop the trunk and refine it.)

Or would Drew just learn that he should have started with something better?

Peter Tea's blog can be found at: www.peterteabonsai.com