Warpig
Chumono
Have seen many of both. The question was which is the "better deal". That depends on many things. Two different people, styles, and ways. Some the same some different. The question becomes which do 'you' want to learn from.
“Best Investment” in Bonsai, 6 cents or $6.50 per hour??
- Thread starter BonsaiDawg
- Start date
I see the Dawg has no sense of humor!
BonsaiDawg
Yamadori
.... Ta da! You are so incredibly brilliant Adair, you old man Jenkins...pat yourself on the back!
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Isn't quality the same as production value?
I didn't say that.
But what I will say is....
Ballers have both.
Gangsters pirate both.
Eff em both!
Get em both!
Sorce
Well, Dawg, all kidding aside, I think what Walter was referring to was “investing in education” is better than simply buying another tree or pot. The old “teach a man to fish...” thing.
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Who are you to claim BS on Walter Pall?
Today we are well blessed to have teachers and content so easy and available of access and relatively low cost. Different perspective, experience, technique of different teachers. Which one "grabs" you is quite personal. Perhaps one does not want to spend or cannot afford yearly cost for Mirai Live but can for Walters, BE presentation? One could believe you argue self out of Walters, BE offering if not knowing any better. Personally suggest to try new offering if affordable for you. What could it hurt?
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
- Messages
- 11,436
- Reaction score
- 23,639
- USDA Zone
- 5b
@BonsaiDawg
520 hours of Ryan Neil? In one month? Assuming I could only bear up to one hour per day of listening to Ryan's voice, and the occasional day off to give my ears time to stop bleeding, it would take me 2 years to watch all that content. So a more realistic cost comparison would be $350 per year, for two years, 520 hours = $1.35 per hour. Still a rather reasonable price. I am only partially joking about my ears bleeding, I enjoy Ryan, but there is a point where his voice can begin to grate on you. I think even he would agree, there are only so many hours a day anyone would want to listen attentively to him. Taking 2 years to listen to his 520 hours is reasonable. And of course, each week Ryan adds more content.
I've either taken as a participant or have been silent observer for live in person workshops from both Ryan Neil and Walter Pall. Each has their strengths, each has their weaknesses.
Once of the tricky issues to learn is the calendar. When to do what. Of the dozens, of artists I've seen speak over the last couple decades, none are particularly good at adjusting their timing suggestions from where they grow to where I grow. All this on line stuff is fine, you can learn lots. But the learning the calendar remains what is likely the most difficult aspect of bonsai. As we each need to customize a calendar for ourselves, for each species we grow. Here, the "local expert" in your own home town bonsai club is really helpful. Having someone nearby who deals with the exact same weather. The local guy doesn't need to teach you everything, just help out figuring when to do what.
I like the production quality and fairly dense information content of Ryan Neil's videos. I like some aspects of Walter Pall's design approach, he does make the very valid point that bonsai does not need to be beautiful, it needs to look, feel, have the impact of a tree.
So each artist has different things to offer. If you can, subscribe to them all.
520 hours of Ryan Neil? In one month? Assuming I could only bear up to one hour per day of listening to Ryan's voice, and the occasional day off to give my ears time to stop bleeding, it would take me 2 years to watch all that content. So a more realistic cost comparison would be $350 per year, for two years, 520 hours = $1.35 per hour. Still a rather reasonable price. I am only partially joking about my ears bleeding, I enjoy Ryan, but there is a point where his voice can begin to grate on you. I think even he would agree, there are only so many hours a day anyone would want to listen attentively to him. Taking 2 years to listen to his 520 hours is reasonable. And of course, each week Ryan adds more content.
I've either taken as a participant or have been silent observer for live in person workshops from both Ryan Neil and Walter Pall. Each has their strengths, each has their weaknesses.
Once of the tricky issues to learn is the calendar. When to do what. Of the dozens, of artists I've seen speak over the last couple decades, none are particularly good at adjusting their timing suggestions from where they grow to where I grow. All this on line stuff is fine, you can learn lots. But the learning the calendar remains what is likely the most difficult aspect of bonsai. As we each need to customize a calendar for ourselves, for each species we grow. Here, the "local expert" in your own home town bonsai club is really helpful. Having someone nearby who deals with the exact same weather. The local guy doesn't need to teach you everything, just help out figuring when to do what.
I like the production quality and fairly dense information content of Ryan Neil's videos. I like some aspects of Walter Pall's design approach, he does make the very valid point that bonsai does not need to be beautiful, it needs to look, feel, have the impact of a tree.
So each artist has different things to offer. If you can, subscribe to them all.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
I'll also say this.....
Walter is Smart enough to pull this publicity stunt himself, even paying Ryan's guys to do it!
Smart smart.
Walter Walter.
I just don't like BE too much.
Sorce
Walter is Smart enough to pull this publicity stunt himself, even paying Ryan's guys to do it!
Smart smart.
Walter Walter.
I just don't like BE too much.
Sorce
Walter Pall
Masterpiece
You caught me! Yes, I admit, I pay this strange dog man for helping the videos in a wicked way.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Just can't stop thinking about how this press is just press all around.
I bet this generates traffic to both places equally.
So y'all actually teamed up!
Lol!
We've already had this discussion, most of us in third grade, "everyone learns differently".
I figure if we're gonna talk about ridiculous things, let's pile it on!
Hey, so long as the Bonsai Education System gets fixed, right!?
Well that's my 2 cents, and, I won't spend it cuz they are pre-1982 and contain enough copper to make a fungicide if I ever get depserate! Maybe some 18ga wire.
Sorce
I bet this generates traffic to both places equally.
So y'all actually teamed up!
Lol!
We've already had this discussion, most of us in third grade, "everyone learns differently".
I figure if we're gonna talk about ridiculous things, let's pile it on!
Hey, so long as the Bonsai Education System gets fixed, right!?
Well that's my 2 cents, and, I won't spend it cuz they are pre-1982 and contain enough copper to make a fungicide if I ever get depserate! Maybe some 18ga wire.
Sorce
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Joe Dupre'
Omono
Let's not forget that people like Ryan Neil were NOT TAUGHT by their masters. They had to observe and figure out the techniques and the priciples on their own. No offense to anyone, but, if you need hundreds of hours of training in bonsai, you might not be in the right hobby. Most any problem you might encounter can probably be solved by a little research or a quick post on this forum. I find the free information provided by Ryan, Bjorn, Walter and Nigel, etc. is more than enough to get you through 99% of any situations you might encounter.
It's not rocket science. Nice starter plant, decent soil, a little fertilizer, adequate water and a few simple tools is really all it takes.
It's not rocket science. Nice starter plant, decent soil, a little fertilizer, adequate water and a few simple tools is really all it takes.
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
Man, I honestly thought I was the only one who had issues with his voice. I had to leave a demo once just because it was making me feel irritated.
Since you're a native speaker, can you tell me what it is exactly that bothers you so much?
I have a real hard time finding that out for myself. Don't know if it's the Colorado accent or just the tone..
Colorado Josh
Yamadori
Haha! My wife can't be in the same room when I'm watching Ryan Neil. His voice drives her crazy! I've never had a problem with it.
I've heard that Coloradans have an accent, but I've never noticed it. I guess we don't pronounce our T's?
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
- Messages
- 11,436
- Reaction score
- 23,639
- USDA Zone
- 5b
I was mostly joking. When I watch Ryan's 2 hour videos, I usually pause and take a break half way through. It is likely me more than anything, I don't pay attention to anyone for much more than 40 minutes at a time. I'll finish the video that same day, just do it in digestible bites.
choppychoppy
Chumono
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
It's cuz he talks (extended pause)
Like the Lady from Madrigal Electromotive
(Long pause)
When talking about the methylymine heist
(Long pause)
In the New Mexican Desert...
Sorce
choppychoppy
Chumono
I love the Bonsai Empire stuff. Its very concise and divided up well. Easy to go back and find and replay the lessons. They are great for clubs as well. I CAN'T STAND the Mirai videos. They are endless ramblings 2-3hrs long and it is difficult to go back to any thing. The length spreads out any info so that it seems to get lost.
Definitely not for me.
Definitely not for me.
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Nice BB reference! Lydia.
