prune black pine tap roots??

Joe Dupre'

Joe Dupre'

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I received my order of 10-18" black pine seedlings from Musser Forests. I ordered 6 and they sent a extra one about pencil sized. First time dealing with black pine seedlings. Should I prune back the tap roots when I pot them tomorrow? If so, how much.

The seedlings were actually much bigger than advertised, which is OK by me. :) The longest two were about 24" tall. Very healthy plants with some branches down low on most of them.

pine.jpg
 
I wouldn't cut them but I like deep tree pots for the first couple years. Those are nice trees!
 
I think it is a pity these were not root pruned well before this stage. The earlier initial root prune is done the better the tree recovers and the better the eventual nebari.
I would definitely root prune now.
I can't really see where the laterals are coming from in the photo but I generally prune to leave 2-3 strong lateral roots. If the initial root prune is done early enough you can guarantee new roots growing from above the chop so I just chop very young seedling tap roots around 1-2 cm long even if there's no laterals. As the tree gets older that ability to make new roots diminishes so, at this age, I always cut back to lateral roots to be safe. You may be able to reduce further in a year or 2 if they respond well.
If you end up with lateral roots at different levels on the trunk use that by planting the trunk on an angle that puts those roots as close to horizontal as possible. Initial trunk angle seems to give much better trunks later.
 
To be fair, Musser seems to cater to commercial landscape type activities and not to the bonsai crowd. If these trees need to be in deeper containers, so be it. I'll prune the tap roots sparingly. This group was meant to be a learning experience on how black pines "tick". I didn't want to tackle really nice material until I had a bit of experience under my belt. At about $5.00 apiece delivered, it's a pretty cheap crash course.
 
Yes. As long as several good side roots remain. Personally would take back at least 50% or more if side roots allow.. And stake up trees for stability. This is most important with reduced root support. Very young trees with great after care have generally great survivability. If you have pumice use 100% at about 1/8-3/16"size. Use well draining substrate for sure. Also choose planting angle now based on root availability near surface. Once survival is obvious fertilize heavily.
 
I would probably cut back to here, and reduce again in a few years. If you plant them in the ground, you’ll want to dig them up every 3-4 years to keep the roots close to the trunk. Pines’ feeder roots get pretty far out from the trunk over time.
IMG_1205.jpeg
 
Brian Van Fleet said:
I would probably cut back to here, and reduce again in a few years. If you plant them in the ground, you’ll want to dig them up every 3-4 years to keep the roots close to the trunk. Pines’ feeder roots get pretty far out from the trunk over time.
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Kind of surprising. I would have cut about 3" less off. It's great to have all of this information at your fingertips. It's funny. I have a friend who never goes on bonsai forums and hardly ever watches bonsai videos. I tell him he's missing out.
 
Joe Dupre' said:
Kind of surprising. I would have cut about 3" less off. It's great to have all of this information at your fingertips. It's funny. I have a friend who never goes on bonsai forums and hardly ever watches bonsai videos. I tell him he's missing out.
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The two guys that replied to you have infinitely more experience than me, but I would add, when taking that much tap root off, make sure they seedlings are really well secured when you plant/pot them. If you can do that, you'll end up with some nice lateral feeders. A 2' tall tree with only a few roots is a challenge to keep steady.
 
Srt8madness said:
Thanks for dropping the name, just ordered 10 seedlings myself.
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And when you receive them I’d recommend if you have the space to plant in a bonsai mix right into the ground. I did this with three seedlings 50 yrs ago and killed one back in ‘83 and have the two as near specimen quality 28-36” bonsai.
And yes I root pruned with a sharp drain spade every year as well as kept it fairly tightly primed to encourage back budding.
Here’s one that I’m doing some wiring and a little trimming right now it is 50yrs!
Working from bottom to top as you can see the top is still a little wonky! Hah!
 

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I'm just wondering if I should cut the seedlings down a bit. That seems like a lot of green on top to a relatively small number of roots. It might help with keeping the trees steady in the pots also.
 
i like attaching a wire to the pot for an anchor and wrap the other end around a neck area where no buds form.
 
My 10 showed up today. Color is a bit pale, probably due to ordering late in the season, not sure. Hopefully they green up when planting. Will be using a pumice/perlite/fir bark mixture in grow bags. Hope they survive.
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Joe Dupre' said:
I'm just wondering if I should cut the seedlings down a bit. That seems like a lot of green on top to a relatively small number of roots. It might help with keeping the trees steady in the pots also.
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I'm not sure it's the right time of year for that. Maybe wait until June, where you would cut somewhere below this year's candles, somewhere into last year's needles. I believe that's the normal timing for that. Once that's done, JBP will try to push out lower buds.

I would guess that yours are 2-3 years old, so you might find this video useful (he has more videos as well just on JBP):
 
This is what we do.

Prune off all the whorls, if any. Leave all the lower branching… perhaps chop these into older needles

Then remove any needles up the sacrifice until about 3” from the top to prevent shading below.

Best
DSD sends
 
Just a thought on these cheaper trees. I got them for about $5_each delivered as well. Some had hardly any deep green needles. I'll be happy with a 50% survival rate (making them about $10/each). They are 3 years old, and luckily enough some have bends, but they'll take a good year to establish and roots will need to be fixed.

So all that work, is it really worth it instead of spending $25 on a tree grown for bonsai from seed? Probably not for me.

That said, they will be great for larger bonsai, as the deeper pot will allow for a bit less initial root pruning, speeding up establishment.
 
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