Prunus Incisa "Kojo-no-mai" - Design Advice

stav121 · Dec 21, 2024

Hello there,

Recently I got hold of this Prunus Incisa "Kojo-no-mai" and I am looking to do something with it. Currently it has three trunks and I am looking into reducing it down to one, but still cannot decide which one to keep. Any advice?

Also, is there any possibility to get 3 different trees out of it, without air layering?

souvik1811 · Dec 21, 2024

You could remove the top soil to reveal how the branches are joined and the stem below that. I guess a lot would depend on how the base of the trunk is.

If the three trunks start very low, maybe you could consider losing the middle branch and styling it as a twin trunk?

stav121 · Dec 21, 2024

I removed some of the top of the soil earlier today to take a look. I am leaning towards removing two of the trunks and keeping just one main trunk. Even tho I like the idea of twin trunk, I kinda don't like how the middle and outer trunk "lean" towards each other.

Wires_Guy_wires · Dec 22, 2024

The way they flower got me to make singular trunks, bunjin or literati instead of bushy.

I found they act like any other cherry when wired; dropping branches and snapping. So I went on a clip and grow tour with them. Mine are in the ground now; one single trunk and one double trunk.

As for the three or two trees out of them, if you clip off one trunk you might be able to get it to root as a cutting, maybe not. I don't know how they behave. But cutting the rootbase into pieces to separate them is not a good idea I can tell from experience.

leatherback · Dec 22, 2024

Wires_Guy_wires said:
might be able to get it to root as a cutting, maybe not. I don't know how they behave. But cutting the rootbase into pieces to separate them is not a good idea I can tell from experience.

I have never been able to get them to root, but considering they are always on their own roots and dirt cheap, there must be a reliable vegetative propagation route.

I have had side-branches root when burried so layering should work well. (Which is an indication they should root from cutting too).

Kievnstavick · Dec 22, 2024

I personally like the look of this oriention.

Without knowing how the nebari looks underneath, it is a little hard to give design advice.

If the rooting starts just under the trunks, you could make it into a clump planting.

If it is lower down, then you would have to either remove one of the trunks or convert the lower one into a branch.

Now the reason I like this view is all of the lower parts of the trunks seem to move in roughly the same direction. It implies a similar growing condition

Above is the image of where I'd probably make the chops if this were my tree. The biggest reason for chopping the trunks that low is to establish more movement in the planting and to create more points of taper in the eventual final comp.

If you didn't want to take the chop-low approach, you should at the very least cut the branching back to allow branch ramification closer to the trunks. You should also attempt to identify the leader/trunk continuation and prune accordingly. Also think about the final size of the composition as that will help inform which branches to cut and to keep.

Best of luck with this. Looks like a great start.

stav121 · Dec 22, 2024

Kievnstavick said:
I personally like the look of this oriention.

View attachment 577937

Without knowing how the nebari looks underneath, it is a little hard to give design advice.

If the rooting starts just under the trunks, you could make it into a clump planting.

If it is lower down, then you would have to either remove one of the trunks or convert the lower one into a branch.

Now the reason I like this view is all of the lower parts of the trunks seem to move in roughly the same direction. It implies a similar growing condition

View attachment 577940

Above is the image of where I'd probably make the chops if this were my tree. The biggest reason for chopping the trunks that low is to establish more movement in the planting and to create more points of taper in the eventual final comp.

If you didn't want to take the chop-low approach, you should at the very least cut the branching back to allow branch ramification closer to the trunks. You should also attempt to identify the leader/trunk continuation and prune accordingly. Also think about the final size of the composition as that will help inform which branches to cut and to keep.

Best of luck with this. Looks like a great start.

I like this angle as well. I am still a bit hesitant about keeping all three trunks, it feels "too crowded" for me, but I can always experiment. I plan to do it's first root work this spring, do you think it is safe to proceed with the trunk chops as well?

Also, this is a species I have absolutely no experience with, I suppose the safest time to do anything would be when the tree wakes up in the spring?

leatherback said:
I have never been able to get them to root, but considering they are always on their own roots and dirt cheap, there must be a reliable vegetative propagation route.

I have had side-branches root when burried so layering should work well. (Which is an indication they should root from cutting too).

About the rooting, I am almost always unlucky with rooting cuttings, most of them end up not surviving their first heat wave here (Greece). I think that air layering one of the trunks might be worth the try tho.

Kievnstavick · Dec 22, 2024

stav121 said:
I like this angle as well. I am still a bit hesitant about keeping all three trunks, it feels "too crowded" for me, but I can always experiment. I plan to do it's first root work this spring, do you think it is safe to proceed with the trunk chops as well?

Also, this is a species I have absolutely no experience with, I suppose the safest time to do anything would be when the tree wakes up in the spring?

I don't have experience with this specific species, but it is a Prunus. Looking up species guides for Cherries in general should help with knowledge gaps.

If you plan on doing root work next spring, then I would suggest to not chop it. One insult per year is the safe play.

In general, Fall and Early Winter are good times to prune for branch selection and wire for movement. Pruning at this time prevents the tree from wasting energy on the buds that you'd want to remove anyways.

stav121 · Dec 23, 2024

Kievnstavick said:
I don't have experience with this specific species, but it is a Prunus. Looking up species guides for Cherries in general should help with knowledge gaps.

If you plan on doing root work next spring, then I would suggest to not chop it. One insult per year is the safe play.

In general, Fall and Early Winter are good times to prune for branch selection and wire for movement. Pruning at this time prevents the tree from wasting energy on the buds that you'd want to remove anyways.

Thanks for the advice! Still, I feel a bit adventurous and I think I will go for a more aggressive prune and root work come spring. I will keep updating the post when the time comes!

Canada Bonsai · Dec 24, 2024

stav121 said:
Recently I got hold of this Prunus Incisa "Kojo-no-mai" and I am looking to do something with it. Currently it has three trunks and I am looking into reducing it down to one

It isn't always crucial to look at mature specimens for inspiration, but in the case of this cultivar I think it's important because the species presents interesting limitations and opportunities.

Step 1 - How does this species grow? See first 2 pics (stolen from web). Observations: multi-trunk is common. They don't thicken much, They don't get very tall.

Step 2 - What are you unlikely to be able to do with this species? See next 2 pics. Observations: Thick trunks are unlikely. Significant taper is unlikely.

Step 3 - What's likely to be a good design for this species? See remaining pics. Observations: Thin trunk with little taper. Single trunks are possible. Multi trunks make sense.

So you're not going to try to grow this as a single trunk, and if you are going single trunk you've got to browse the web and find the appropriate inspiration. Don't look at Japanese Maples or Styrax. Don't swing the other way and look at Chojubai, because that's not what you have either. But take a look at Toyo Nishiki bonsai, there are some of them that are less ramified that could be inspiring. You don't have a weeping tree either, so if you go with one of those fun twisting single-trunk designs that are common for sakura, branch placement will be something to reflect on.

Off the top of my head, I like the multi-trunk (IMG_4917 attached), the 7th image. Something taller, with individual trunks that are more developed, could be fun.

A final point would be to keep in mind that the flowers of Kojo no mai hang from the branch (see last pic, stolen from web). The flowers are not 'stuck' up again the branches like some other cherries, Ume, or Chojubai for example. There are certain aesthetics that will take advantage of this and highlight it, while others will do the opposite. Personally, my first thought would be that I would not want very congested ramification on a tree with hanging flowers.

stav121 · Dec 24, 2024

Canada Bonsai said:
It isn't always crucial to look at mature specimens for inspiration, but in the case of this cultivar I think it's important because the species presents interesting limitations and opportunities.

Step 1 - How does this species grow? See first 2 pics (stolen from web). Observations: multi-trunk is common. They don't thicken much, They don't get very tall.

Step 2 - What are you unlikely to be able to do with this species? See next 2 pics. Observations: Thick trunks are unlikely. Significant taper is unlikely.

Step 3 - What's likely to be a good design for this species? See remaining pics. Observations: Thin trunk with little taper. Single trunks are possible. Multi trunks make sense.

So you're not going to try to grow this as a single trunk, and if you are going single trunk you've got to browse the web and find the appropriate inspiration. Don't look at Japanese Maples or Styrax. Don't swing the other way and look at Chojubai, because that's not what you have either. But take a look at Toyo Nishiki bonsai, there are some of them that are less ramified that could be inspiring. You don't have a weeping tree either, so if you go with one of those fun twisting single-trunk designs that are common for sakura, branch placement will be something to reflect on.

Off the top of my head, I like the multi-trunk (IMG_4917 attached), the 7th image. Something taller, with individual trunks that are more developed, could be fun.

A final point would be to keep in mind that the flowers of Kojo no mai hang from the branch (see last pic, stolen from web). The flowers are not 'stuck' up again the branches like some other cherries, Ume, or Chojubai for example. There are certain aesthetics that will take advantage of this and highlight it, while others will do the opposite. Personally, my first thought would be that I would not want very congested ramification on a tree with hanging flowers.

Thank you very much for taking the time for this detailed comment. It has been really helpful. I do believe that multi-trunk is the way to go with this one.

I have always avoided multi-trunk so far, I find it really hard to design effectively, but this one makes me have itchy fingers. Honestly can't wait for spring to come to start working on it!

Leo in N E Illinois · Jan 8, 2025

Itchy Fingers - you can start wiring in winter. Other activities should wait for spring.

stav121 · Jan 9, 2025

Leo in N E Illinois said:
Itchy Fingers - you can start wiring in winter. Other activities should wait for spring.

Well, I think there is no point in wiring right now, since I plan to chop it hard. Mid-February I will probably start working on it and post the result and plans that I have for it!

stav121 · Feb 13, 2025

Just a quick update on the tree, the flowers are slowly coming out! Should I wait for the leaf buds to open in Spring for the root work, or is it safe to work on it now?

stav121 · Thursday at 1:07 AM

Minor update, the tree is in full bloom at this point, and soon I expect it to fully wake up and start leafing out. Possibly next week it will be getting it's first root work and placed in a more shallow pot!

rodeolthr · Friday at 10:50 AM

FWIW, I have the same issue with both prunus and malus in that they have aggressive roots which easily colonize their pots during the course of a season. I keep mine in deeper pots, and even so have a difficult time keeping them moist by the end of summer because the pots are so full of roots. So, beware of going too shallow.

stav121 · Friday at 1:14 PM

rodeolthr said:
FWIW, I have the same issue with both prunus and malus in that they have aggressive roots which easily colonize their pots during the course of a season. I keep mine in deeper pots, and even so have a difficult time keeping them moist by the end of summer because the pots are so full of roots. So, beware of going too shallow.

Thanks for the heads up. I plan on putting it in a terracotta pot for now that is same diameter as it's current one but about half the depth. I am a bit in the fence on what soil mix to use for it, because here it gets really hot in the summer and non organic soils tend to dry out in a few hours during the hot summer days.

I don't know if you have any advice to give, but I will do either 50/50 high quality compost and pumice, or 50/50 high quality compost and perlite.

rodeolthr · 2025-03-03T09:36:08-0800

For me, I find that stone fruits and malus all seem to prefer organic soil that holds water, but still drains well. Actually, I find that except in winter, drainage isn't an issue since they seem to drink as much water as you give them. It may require a bit of experimentation on your part, but it will be obvious if they aren't staying moist enough.

stav121 · 2025-03-03T12:58:03-0800

So, today I did a first root work and (very) light pruning. The tree started to leaf out very fast, and missed it by one or two days but I think it will be OK.

While removing the soil a very nice lower trunk was revealed which has made me re-think future styling of the tree. I think this is all the work this tree is going to get at this point since I don't want to stress it too much by pruning hard along side with the root work.

Will post more daytime photos soon! I'm really exited for this little thing!

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