Cascading azalea advice

Bart99

Yamadori
Messages
73
Reaction score
40
Location
Alexandria, VA
USDA Zone
7
Hey folks -
I'm new here, and fairly new to bonsai. I got into a couple years ago and did some work on nursery stock which are coming along, but I still have them in their original pots and I'm just in the process of shrinking the root balls.

My question is about an azalea I picked up the other day for pretty cheap. It had a long branch growing out of the pot and down to the ground so I thought it would be a good candidate for cascade style. As you can see in the photos, I hacked back the top severely but I left the long branch uncut.

My question is, should I leave the long branch as it is, or cut it in half or so? The goal would be to get one of those long, beautiful, layered flowering branches someday.

Thanks!
Bart

PS - any other advice is welcome!Bonsai 1.JPG Bonsai 2.JPG
 
Azalea back bud well. It should pop.

Those leaves look pretty big. And, usually, the big leaved ones have large flowers, too.

What variety is it? We generally try to get the smaller leaved (smaller flowers) varieties.

You can grow the big ones, just have to plan on having a bigger tree.
 
I'll have to check the tag, but it's just a run of the mill garden store azalea. I'm 99% sure it's not a satsuki. They were on sale so I bought a couple and then started reading about azalea bonsai!!
 
Just to follow up, it's a Gillie or Robin Hill Gillie.

So I should just let it grow as it is for a couple years trying to thicken it up?
 
Last edited:
Robin Hill Nursery has been breeding azaleas for many years, it is not a Satsuki, it is a USA origin hybrid, but it does have some Satsuki in its ancestry. They should be fully winter hardy in your area, which is good. The flowers will be fairly large, likely 2 to 4 inches across. Think of your branches as display platforms for the flowers, for 3 inch flowers you need to leave space, at least 3 inches between two branches on the same side of the cascading trunk or there won't be room for the flowers. If you end up with branches and inch apart on the trunk you will have to alternate between the different directions so one branch does not end up too close directly over another branch. Or you can do a smaller design where the branches radiate out, and there is never one branch above the other, In an upright this would be a variation on the informal broom styles or clump styles. For a cascade, make sure your tiers of branches are far enough apart.

I would just let it grow for the remainder of this year. I have a cascading Satsuki, and cascades in general are a unique learning experience. Even though most azaleas are not considered "apically dominant", they don't necessarily make easy cascade subjects. The problem you will constantly have is branches that sprout along the cascading trunk, the upper branches will be stronger and try to "outgrow" the lower branches. For my own cascade, I prune the upper branches back hard, to just a leaf or two per branch, the middle section I will leaves longer branches when I prune and the lowest portion often will go without being pruned at all if it has not outgrown its shape. The lowest part will be slower growing. The upper branches you might have to prune 3 times to every once you prune the lower.

Right now the first branch on your cascading branch should be cut back to just one or two leaves, it is monopolizing the energy coming down the cascading trunk. You want the lower branches to grow more. Cut back the uppermost branch now, and you will probably have to cut it again later in summer. Let the bottom most grow without pruning for the rest of the year. Anytime the branches higher up get more than an two to four inches longer than the branches on the lowest point, consider pruning the upper ones back, unless your design plan needs a longer upper branches. One common design, for cascades is the lower the branches are on the cascading trunk, the wider they flare out from the cascading trunk. There are other designs, but if you have no plan, you can start with this and over time come up with your own design.

Right now, you don't have many branches coming off your cascading trunk, but by end of summer you should have several dozen branches bud out on the cascading trunk. You will want to keep the same pattern on the cascading trunk as you would on an upright trunk, left-right-front-left-right-front, etc. You want a 3 dimensional arrangement of secondary branches. Keep them coming out bending down, then up at the ends of the branches. No branches going directly toward the pot. The very end of the cascade should turn up a little bit. All branch ends should turn up a little at the very end. You might not need wire to do this, azalea will naturally grow upwards. You will need to wire branches downward.

If you feel ready to try your hand at wire, wire the cascading trunk to work in a bit of movement, give it a "wiggle". Right now it is rather straight, it will be easiest to wire now while young and somewhat flexible, before many new branch buds have sprouted. By next year it may be too stiff and woody to bend easily. Be careful, azalea wood is very brittle and snaps easily. If you are not ready to try your hand at wiring, don't worry, there are things later you can do to create movement down the road.
 
Wow! THANKS Leo!!

This is fantastic advice, that I'm going to have to read a couple more times to fully comprehend.......and another cut and paste for the file.

Thanks again,
Bart
 
For all intends and purposes, you can call 'Gillie' a satsuki. It doesn't matter really matter, to me at least, that the person who registered the plant didn't have 日本人 written in their passports that registered the plant.

It's not a 'pureblood', if there is something like that in satsuki.

If it was grown in Japan and popular enough(it wouldn't), it would be in the Tochinoha Shobo satsuki dictionary for sure.

If the goal is to get one cascading branch with pads filled with flowers, then long-term all those other branches don't play much of a role. Unless, you want a flower pad there too, as contrast.

I would leave it for now. I think it may be a challenge to get backbudding at the right places on that cascading branch.
This cultivar will likely not backbud naturally as some may do.
Well, maybe you don't really need backbudding, but it is something to keep in mind
 
Satsuki, in spring will have a flush of vegetative growth, then pause to bloom, then resume growing.

Other azalea types will tend to bloom first as they come out of dormancy then grow vegetatively.

See how this behaves, then you will know if the hybrid is more Satsuki or not. Really doesn't matter much, all evergreen azaleas are grown using the same basic techniques. There are minor differences in timing as to when you do what, but at this stage of the game, don't worry about it.
 
the two upright branches you have left, you may want to keep them for a couple years to help develop the ''nebari'', or the base of the trunk where it fares out to the roots. Keep shoots on these trimmed short so that they always have fewer leaves than the cascading trunk, or they will take over at the cascading trunk's expense. Let shoots grow out 6 to 10 inches then chop back to one or two leaves, or to an inch or so. You want the engery to stay in the cascading trunk.

One of those branches will be useful in the design as a visual counterweight to the cascade, but you don't need to choose which one just yet.

Right now focus is getting the whole azalea growing strongly,and keeping the upper parts from getting too strong. You want it to get bushy all up and down the cascading trunk so that when it is time to style you have lots of choices.
 
Right now the first branch on your cascading branch should be cut back to just one or two leaves, it is monopolizing the energy coming down the cascading trunk. You want the lower branches to grow more. Cut back the uppermost branch now, and you will probably have to cut it again later in summer. Let the bottom most grow without pruning for the rest of the year. Anytime the branches higher up get more than an two to four inches longer than the branches on the lowest point, consider pruning the upper ones back, unless your design plan needs a longer upper branches. One common design, for cascades is the lower the branches are on the cascading trunk, the wider they flare out from the cascading trunk. There are other designs, but if you have no plan, you can start with this and over time come up with your own design.

Right now, you don't have many branches coming off your cascading trunk, but by end of summer you should have several dozen branches bud out on the cascading trunk. You will want to keep the same pattern on the cascading trunk as you would on an upright trunk, left-right-front-left-right-front, etc. You want a 3 dimensional arrangement of secondary branches. Keep them coming out bending down, then up at the ends of the branches. No branches going directly toward the pot. The very end of the cascade should turn up a little bit. All branch ends should turn up a little at the very end. You might not need wire to do this, azalea will naturally grow upwards. You will need to wire branches downward.

Hey folks, checking back in after a couple months for a sanity check.

Back in May, I took Leo's advice and cut back the first branch of the cascade to 2 leaves, but that was the only think I've done with the tree. It's hard to see if that original "first cascading" branch is still there from these photos, but I think it is. I can get a better shot of it tonight if necessary.

Is there anything I should be doing at this point? Both the very top and very bottom of the plant has grown a lot in the last 2 months and I'm wondering if I need to take action or just let it be?

Thanks!

cascade az1.jpg cascade az2.jpg cascade az3.jpg
 
Excellent! Well done. It is showing some vigor. Your still very young plant is looking good.

I think the first week of August is about as late as you would want to prune and still get flower buds. Branches pruned later than First week of August might not bloom The following spring. This is based on leaving 12 weeks before first frost to develop flower buds. Check your average first frost date and count back 12 weeks. That is the lastest to prune if you want flowers. There are those that insist you never allow an azalea in training to flower, in order to put all the energy into growth. Personally I encourage mine to flower - no matter how young, flowers are the whole reward for going thru the trouble of raising azaleas - otherwise I may as well raise boxwood, and boxwoods bore me to tears.

Right now, before your 12 week deadline, I would prune all branches above the rim of the pot to just 2 or 4 leaves. The top is getting strong, you need to keep the above the rim growth weaker or less dominant than the cascade branch. Especially going into winter, or in spring you will see the cascade branch start weaker.

Cascade branch looks good, notice the upper half has a nice curve to it, and the new growth is arrow straight. In fall maybe after first frost, after the branches have partially hardened off, wire curves into the cascade branches. (right now they are too tender and will bruise or break if you try to wire). You want to ''repeat'' the theme set by the first curve in the cascade branch, but like fractals repeating a pattern, the curves will be shorter in interval in progression.

On the cascade, you have 3 branches from one point. Pick one to continue the cascade, one to be the branch, and one to remove. You can remove it now, or when you sit down to wire out the tree. The ''formula rule'' is only 2 at any point. Azaleas often put out multiple buds at the same point. Unless you have a reason, try to keep to the rule. Every year you will have to go back and get rid of excess branches at points.

Don't prune any of the cascade branches short now, wait until after blooming in spring. You want to keep the cascade dominant, even if it looks raggety and overgrown for much of the year.

When you wire in autumn or over the winter, wire the cascade branch first, set the pattern for the length of the cascade. You want the branches on the outside of curves. The inside of curves should be your ''negative spaces'' in the design, no branch or foliage on the inside of curves. (a guideline, not a ''rule'')

You've done well so far, keep it up, and now you have a plan for the next 6 months or until it flowers in spring.
 
Thanks for another great reply Leo! Sorry for the delayed response, I've been semi-off the grid for the last week or so.

According to webgrower.com I have a 10% chance of hitting 32 degrees by Oct 27, a 50% chance by Nov 15, and a 90% by Dec 3 so I may still be in the "safe to prune" window. If not, I suppose I can bring the plant inside for a night or two if a frost comes early. Or roll the dice on not getting flowers.

Thanks again for the response.........it's going in the file!!
 
Hey folks -
Here I am almost a year later and I haven't done much except let it grow. It hasn't flowered yet and it looks like it's a few weeks away.

As usual, I'm looking for advice.

Should I wait until after it flowers to do any pruning?

What should I do about the cascade? There are 4 branches coming from the lowest node (and some of those branches split off) and two branches from the middle node. Should they be taken done to one branch per node?

Is it time to start wiring?

I'm assuming I'm going to have to keep cutting back the top to keep it from dominating. How much should I leave?

Thanks!
Bart

(Pics in next post)
 
Leo mentioned in a post above offered great advice for the very end of the cascade and really the whole tree, follow it and you will like the outcome. You need to pick one of the for the continuation of the cascade, maybe keep the shorter one jutting off to the right as a side branch and remove the other two. If you don't want a side branch there, remove all but one. You can wait until after it blooms if you want flowers. Wire some movement into all of the straight newer growth and anything else you want to have some curves, be careful as azaleas are brittle, some more than others.

John
 
Nice to see it alive bro!

Good Job!

Sorce
 
Nice to see it alive bro!

Good Job!

Sorce

Thanks! I do my best work when I forget about things for 10 months at a time!

Thanks also to you John. As I reread Leo's advice from last year I realized that everything he said was still applicable. I'm a little unsure on the wiring because I've never done and before and I haven't been able to find any good pictures of similar looking trees/shrubs. Most of the ones I've seen have a lot more leaves/needles that obscure the curves in the cascade.

Something I read somewhere suggested wrapping the branches in raffia prior to wiring. Do you think that's needed here?
 
Back
Top Bottom