Rot in my Japanese white pine's rootstock

[shohin_branches]

I got two Japanese White Pines in 1 gallon containers that looked like could be nice prebonsai material but I've run into an issue. A large portion of the rootstock on one is rotting. Normally I'd spray with Physan 20 and pot it up but I don't want to harm the mycorrhizae. Currently out of lime sulfur. Any suggestions on the best approach to set this up for a good future? Currently carving out all the soft wood and prepping a pond basket.

 

[Japonicus]

IDK but obvious why you'd want to save it. Nice trunk and graft.
The cracks in the bark are concerning as is the large scale of rot. When did you get this?

 

[shohin_branches]

I would have updated earlier but I went out. Cleaned up the rot and reopened the edges of the scar with an x-acto and put some cutpaste on the edges to see if I can get some healing going. I got this a couple weeks ago and some needles started yellowing so I want to get it healthy and then I'll see about ground layering this above the rot eventually.



Here is the nob from the graft point.

So I got the knob cleaned up too.


Decided to go with a grow bag and no organic material to keep airflow good. I'm going to contact the seller to have a conversation since I just got these.

 

[bwaynef]

Inorganic soil is definitely the way to go. That looks like a REALLY big soil mass though. A weak tree won't be able to move as much water, so often they're put into as small a container as they can go to regain their vigor. There's something about quick drying cycles (without letting them excessively dry, mind you) that rejuvenates weak trees. It might be more that trees resent being wet, but whatever it is, I think your container is too big for this situation.

Also, whatever container you go with, you should make sure the tree is fastened in, rock-solid. I've had a hard time securing trees in grow bags with small rootballs.

If you choose to put it in a smaller container, I'd treat the rot with some peroxide-water (watered down to equal portions ...or weaker). Might be unnecessary, but probably won't hurt.

 

[Japonicus]

Yeh that's a nice tree

ground layering this

Only 2 cultivars are known to layer that I'm aware of.
Zuishio is one ofthose, I forget the other.

 

[bwaynef]

Yeh that's a nice tree

Only 2 cultivars are known to layer that I'm aware of.
Zuishio is one ofthose, I forget the other.

You're likely thinking of Kokonoe.

That said, I bought 2 JWP this spring with hopes of layering them in a year or so. They're neither zuisho nor kokonoe. Not sure it'll work, but I don't think its a necessarily a lost cause just because they aren't either of those 2 cultivars.

 

[Japonicus]

You're likely thinking of Kokonoe.

That said, I bought 2 JWP this spring with hopes of layering them in a year or so. They're neither zuisho nor kokonoe. Not sure it'll work, but I don't think its a necessarily a lost cause just because they aren't either of those 2 cultivars.

Please update with how it goes.
I hope it works.

 

[shohin_branches]

Roots on tree #2 are worse. It was slip potted at some point but the mat of roots are all black and squishy. There are a few live roots. I got as much of the rot removed as I felt comfortable with. Talked to the seller and they said if it goes bad they can replace it but not sure if I want another one of these.


Poorly trimmed dead and rotting roots.


I also didn't like the 3 gallon grow bag idea for tree #1. At first I thought I could water less but then realized that's not going to work with our cold wet springs so slipped it back into a 1 gallon.
So if you aren't feeling like dealing with root issues avoid the $65 JWP on ebay.

 

[shohin_branches]

Damn, did not realize I was clenching my jaw through that entire repot

 

[shohin_branches]

Inorganic soil is definitely the way to go. That looks like a REALLY big soil mass though. A weak tree won't be able to move as much water, so often they're put into as small a container as they can go to regain their vigor. There's something about quick drying cycles (without letting them excessively dry, mind you) that rejuvenates weak trees. It might be more that trees resent being wet, but whatever it is, I think your container is too big for this situation.

I agree. The root surface area to soil volume means that the soil can hold a lot more water than the roots can move efficiently. If the roots don't experience regular variation in moisture levels they won't grow to seek out water and your tree will languish at best but likely just rot.

I was thinking I could adjust my watering to compensate but my brain isn't what it used to be. When I was a kid I had over 250 trees in different states of development and I knew what I was doing with each one. In my 20's I had 5 to 10 bonsai trees because I was living in apartments and all my trees died when I left home. Now in my late 30's I have around 80 trees and I'm starting to write out notes for each because after a 10 hour workday the brain just doesn't want to think that hard anymore.

 

[shohin_branches]

Pine #1 is struggling the most. Candles are barely moving. It has lost a few more needles. Putting it back in the greenhouse to control the water.


Pine #2 looks like it will survive. Not the strongest candle growth, but it's enough to keep going after emergency surgery.