Pinus Thunbergii

[Robert E Holt]

The is a Japanese Black Pine that I picked up at Dragon Tree Bonsai two Saturday's ago for $25. No sense is starting with expensive material when I'm sure to kill it. Thought it best to start a thread on this tree to see if I can get some help. I have read several books and lots of blogs about JBP, but it's never quite the same working on your own. In the books all of the pictures are very controlled for the point someone is trying to make. On your own tree, it's all just a big mess.

 

[Robert E Holt]

I have read that this is the right time of year to clean up the needles and cut buds to get the most out of next years growing season. Since this tree originated in southern Florida, i don't want to do much because I know it has some acclimating to do. On the other-hand, I want to be sure that I am not neglecting it and risk losing some of the lower growth that is close to the trunk.



The question is what can I safely do to this tree now and what SHOULD I do now. The only thing I have done so far is to remove dead/brown needles. there are more that have brown tips (Needle Cast?), should they be removed too?

 

[Robert E Holt]

Also, some areas seem to have a LOT of buds. this is mostly in the apex area; although, other lower areas also have quite a few.



Most of what i have read indicates that I should cut these back to 2 per branch tip. they are so clumped together that I'm not sure how to go about it. There are also some smaller new growth berried in the needles. should the needles be thinned out so that they get enough light, or should I not worry about that this year?

 

[Robert E Holt]

Sorry this is so long, but one more question; there are a number of smaller branches that have no foliage, should i go ahead and cut them off now?

 

[Paradox]

I am not really liking the color on this tree. It just seems off.

If it were mine I think I would do nothing but water it. If it looks healthier, I would repot it in the spring into something bigger or into the ground. It needs to grow more imo or you could do something like what Dav4 did in this thread: http://www.bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/jbp-literati.21109/.

In either case it needs to get healthier. It just doesnt look right now.

 

[Robert E Holt]

I am not really liking the color on this tree. It just seems off.

If it were mine I think I would do nothing but water it. If it looks healthier, I would repot it in the spring into something bigger or into the ground. It needs to grow more imo.

I agree, my plan was to repot into a colander in the spring. when i picked it out the color looked very good. i think part of the problem is the flash and the side I am taking pictures in the house.

 

[Eric Group]

Color looks ok to me, but those are not the best pics Robert!

Some of those clusters you called "buds" at the apex are little pollen "cones" (not pine cones, just the things it makes to spray pollen out all over creation!). They can be rubbed off... No growth will come from them. Specifically- post 3, pics 1&2 look like pollen to me... The brownish/ yellow colored small extensions... This tells me a few things- 1. tree is probably pretty healthy. 2. It has NO CLUE what season it is as they normally make these in the late Spring/ early Summer! Coming from S Florida, this guy probably hasn't gone dormant since... Hell maybe EVER!

With this in mind, I would not touch it. AT LEAST not before Spring, and you might want to limit what "training" you'd next year. A re-pot - especially to a larger pot- to let it grow out some shouldn't stress the tree a bunch and I'd say you should do that next Spring, and just let it run to gain some strength, get on track with your climate and get real healthy! Then, the following Spring see what you have and decide if it is time to start working on it. Hard to see how big the trunk really is, but I suspect it wil, need more than one year of growing out before it is truly ready for training. JMO

 

[Eric Group]

Sorry this is so long, but one more question; there are a number of smaller branches that have no foliage, should i go ahead and cut them off now?

View attachment 86906

Branches with no foliage= dead and can be removed.. Especially the smaller ones with no potential for interesting deadwood.

 

[Robert E Holt]

Thanks Eric; it at least sounds like you know what you are talking about That sounds like a good plan. I really wasn't going to do much right now anyway, I just wanted to make sure I was doing what I should. It sounds like I have a lot to learn.

 

[Robert E Holt]

Branches with no foliage= dead and can be removed.. Especially the smaller ones with no potential for interesting deadwood.

That was my take, but obviously I don't know much about Pines

 

[Adair M]

What you do to this tree depends on how tall you want it to be.

 

[Eric Group]

Thanks Eric; it at least sounds like you know what you are talking about That sounds like a good plan. I really wasn't going to do much right now anyway, I just wanted to make sure I was doing what I should. It sounds like I have a lot to learn.

I am an expert on what NOT to do to trees!
I have found the "oops, that killed it" threshold of damn near every species I have worked with at this point...

If I start offering up advice about detailed refinement of a JBP, wiring to prepare it for a show or finishing a masterpiece level tree... just ignore me and ask someone else for help! I can walk you through the repotting, up- potting, grow it out, keep it alive stuff like a champ though.

 

[Eric Group]

What you do to this tree depends on how tall you want it to be.

Very true!

If you are unsure at this point though... Bigger is generally better when it comes to the trunk- IOW: "when in doubt, grow it out"

 

[Robert E Holt]

What you do to this tree depends on how tall you want it to be.

So what are the trade-offs in how I make that decision? I think it is currently too big for the final design, but I'm not sure how to determine how tall it wants to be.

 

[Adair M]

"It wants to be"

You have to change your mindset. The tree wants to grow to be 100 feet tall!

No, bonsai is obedience training for trees.

YOU control how big YOU want it to be!

 

[sorce]

I have found the "oops, that killed it" threshold of damn near every species I have worked with at this point...

Love this. Not for it's humor.

For its education!

Sorce

 

[Robert E Holt]

"It wants to be"

You have to change your mindset. The tree wants to grow to be 100 feet tall!

No, bonsai is obedience training for trees.

YOU control how big YOU want it to be!

I agree with the "obedience training for trees", but before I start training I need to be able to see what would make the tree look it's best. I feel I have a little time for that since the tree has some adjusting to do. At the earliest it will be late next year before I can do much to it.

 

[Adair M]

You mean it needs to adjust to a new climate? Very well. It's good to take it slow.

With pines, it's important to do things at the right time.

 

[Robert E Holt]

With pines, it's important to do things at the right time.

That was kind of the point of my original questions; now being the time of year to do certain work on a JBP, is it appropriate to do that work on THIS JBP given the constraints? If not, should I do ANY work on it, when and what? It sounds like I shouldn't do much right now. I should let it acclimated now, repot it in maybe February and keep it healthy until at least next fall before I do anything else.

 

[Adair M]

That was kind of the point of my original questions; now being the time of year to do certain work on a JBP, is it appropriate to do that work on THIS JBP given the constraints? If not, should I do ANY work on it, when and what? It sounds like I shouldn't do much right now. I should let it acclimated now, repot it in maybe February and keep it healthy until at least next fall before I do anything else.

That sounds like a good plan. If it's not in good bonsai soil, start the process with a half bare root repot.