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The Bonsai Herald

The Bonsai Herald

Mame
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I have nothing against Mr. Hagedorn personally, nor do I know him personally, nor know of his work except that he trained in Japan; but someone (and no, not Dan Robinson) rather high up in the local bonsai scene both invited me as a matter of course too an upcoming workshop of his years ago in Seattle, and in the same breath admitted that it would ruin my trees and my unique approach to bonsai if I attended.

I did not.

Are we really so full of self-loathing that we should depend on a foreign culture with questionable underpinnings to teach us who should be, or how we should practice bonsai?

Really?

Slings and arrows welcome (and will be ritually ignored).

G52
 
grouper52 said:
and will be ritually ignored
Click to expand...

Love that.
grouper52 said:
Are we really so full of self-loathing that we should depend on a foreign culture with questionable underpinnings to teach us who should be, or how we should practice bonsai
Click to expand...

Love that even more!
A lot said in just one sentence.
 
grouper52 said:
I have nothing against Mr. Hagedorn personally, nor do I know him personally, nor know of his work except that he trained in Japan; but someone (and no, not Dan Robinson) rather high up in the local bonsai scene both invited me as a matter of course too an upcoming workshop of his years ago in Seattle, and in the same breath admitted that it would ruin my trees and my unique approach to bonsai if I attended.

I did not.

Are we really so full of self-loathing that we should depend on a foreign culture with questionable underpinnings to teach us who should be, or how we should practice bonsai?

Really?

Slings and arrows welcome (and will be ritually ignored).

G52
Click to expand...
Normally I'd sit this out but since slings and arrows are welcomed...

The post basically insults everyone who's ever studied in Japan or taken courses from someone who has. Do we assume everyone learning from someone else, somewhere else is too weak minded and weak willed to maintain and/or develop their own style and approach of their choosing? At the same time the post admits to some of the same self loathing/insecurity mentioned with the implication of fear of ruining ones own approach by simply attending a course and being exposed to another's practices.

A pretty strange post I figured, if you follow Michaels blog at all it's pretty obvious he is forging ahead with his own styles and approaches, building on what he has learned elsewhere.
 
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wireme said:
Normally I'd sit this out but since slings and arrows are welcomed...
Click to expand...

Slings and arrows are certainly welcome: you only take on flack when you are over the target.

My words stand, without apology or qualifications.
 
As I see it, we have the Japanese to thank for our loving hobby. They in turn have the Chinese to thank.
We wouldn't even have had trees or techniques to care for it, if it weren't for them. All of us should stay humble, patient and appreciative towards each other for the sake of bonsai. That in essence is what bonsai is suppose to teach us isn't it? That "culture" came over to the west with the first trees..... :) Seems to me it is slowly being lost and replaced by our Western "arrogance". The biggest thread to bonsai for me is....ego.....smallest of words with the biggest of impacts !!! :( The biggest asset to bonsai is attitude. The greatest of Masters it seems to me has worked their lives on perfecting that attitude. To me bonsai is not a tree thing, it is an attitude thing.... Only then can you we be worthy of that masterpiece we created.....:)
I think Mr Miyagi would agree....;)
 
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I think what Grouper 52 was saying, was simply - time has come to truly explore our trees.
The techniques of Bonsai / Tree penjing are well understood and time to apply as Westerners.

So many trees in North America and they mostly look Eastern------------ sad.
Good Day
Anthony
 
Anthony said:
sad
Click to expand...

Yes. Like the English, and others in Europe, simply say, well you see, our trees have holes, our deciduous trees ARE hollow!

Why can we not chose a direction?

Sorce
 
sorce said:
Yes. Like the English, and others in Europe, simply say, well you see, our trees have holes, our deciduous trees ARE hollow!

Why can we not chose a direction?

Sorce
Click to expand...
Hollow deciduous trees are fine. It's rare to see Jin branches on deciduous trees. They tend to rot and fall off. Then, either of two things happen: the tree heals over the wound, or the trunk starts to rot. Which eventually produces a hollow tree!
 
sorce said:
Yes. Like the English, and others in Europe, simply say, well you see, our trees have holes, our deciduous trees ARE hollow!

Why can we not chose a direction?

Sorce
Click to expand...

All of us are choosing a direction every time we look at our trees, if we don't like the direction some chose then go another way!
I suppose it's inevitable to be influenced to varying degrees by what we are exposed to but this is the Internet age, lots of choices.
I don't go to shows or club meetings or anything to see first hand what's out there but I am skeptical that it is as bad copycat wise as some of the posts I see on the subject here make it appear?
I also think there is a much wider range of styling techniques in the east than some of these discussions give credit to.
Personally I feel like I'm more European influenced than anything else with the things I do and try to do with my trees. That's from back in the day when there was a lot of great European content on the forums. For N.A. Artists actually guys like grouper, crust, Mach 5, etc are some of the people I chose to try to emulate as well, and Michael H. , love his work.

Oh yeah, thanks for the links Herald, good stuff.
 
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