JWP shoot pruning

[iant]

I'm still a little confused on the timing of trying to create shorter internodes on a JWP. I read that in the spring to break off 2/3 of the larger elongating candles. This would be back to 4-5 needle sets. So I did this to just a few candles this April. I also read to prune shoots back in 'early summer' to 5-7 needle sets.
So I'm a little confused if I should cut back any of the longer shoots now or if this is no longer considered 'early summer.' I was going by the Bonsai Today Master Series Pines book. I also read through this site: http://www.lvbonsai.co.uk/article-whitepine.asp
My inclination is not to do anything now and wait until Nov. to let it get used to it's new home. I just don't want to miss the boat if I should be cutting it back now.
It has already done a lot this year. It has moved from Oregon to California and was slip potted upon arrival in early April.
Thanks for the advice,
Ian

 

[tanlu]

That doesn't look like a JWP to me. Needles are way too long.

 

[iant]

It's a species, not a specific cultivar. You might be more used to seeing Zuisho. Also it was grown in the ground in an area that it likes which makes the needles not at all reduced.
Ian

 

[Adair M]

Ian,

JWP are a mountain species, and as such, they prefer dryer soil. It appears you have it on a drip system. While your intentions may be good, it's possible you're overwatering it, which can induce long, soft needles.

Also, how much sun is it getting? Again, JWP prefer full sun. Too little sun will also induce long soft needles.

And it appears to be in an overly large growing pot. Which the root system cannot dry out between waterings, so again, it results in long, lanky, soft growth.

And, one more thing, did you fertilize it a lot this past spring? If so, you stimulated a lot of lanky growth. The trick with fertilizing JWP is to fertilize AFTER the needles have stopped growing.

Now, I may be totally off base, but any of those things (or combo of a couple of them) can cause the growth you show.

My white pine produces very tight needle clusters, and they all point up towards the sky. Very few needles grow down.

(Very few of us have Zuisho. It's quite rare.)

My advice is to take the tree to the next Club meeting, and ask other members if their JWP grow like yours. If theirs don't, and you like the way theirs look, do what they do.

(I put my money on it's too wet.)

 

[iant]

Wow.... Neither of you two answered the specifics of my request for advice! It's fun to do detective work with photos I know.
So Adair, it has a drip system but I haven't turned it on yet... Not used once. It's backup for when I need to leave town. So far it's all by hand last several months. The soil is sifted and nothing in it less than 1/8 inch. Also nothing that really holds water. It's one third sifted pumice, 1/3 sifted perlite, and 1/3 sifted uncomposted pine bark. The cover is some long fiber sphagnum as it gets really hot and dry here. Earlier this summer it wilted on one of the hotter days so I know it needs the water I'm giving it. If it is going to have horticultural trouble it's going to be due to heat and the fact that this is warmer and dryer here than the trees natural habitat. It's got sun 8 AM to 2 pm under 40% shade cloth.
So while I appreciate any comments my question was not about my horticultural techniques nor about what type of plant I have but rather about pruning timing,
Thanks and I hope I wasn't too bristly with my response!
Ian

 

[iant]

Adair,
I forgot to say that I do appreciate the advice about the fertilizing. I have been fertilizing regularly. I figure though that at this stage I just want it growing strong and healthy. I do appreciate your advice though, despite my chiding,
Ian

 

[jkd2572]

I use the advice in the book you mentioned above for white pines. I don't believe this is a white pine. That's important because different techniques are important for different pines. What you have looks very healthy. I would needle pull according to the book. Wire in the fall.. When it comes to candle pruning this is done before they open for jwp. It's too late for that as it looks like they have already opened.

 

[JudyB]

iant, I think your instincts are right about not doing anything else this year. Especially since it just made a big move. With the growing season being so long there, you might be able to do pruning later than where you were in Oregon on a normal year however. (or maybe it was just the tree that moved, not you...)
Better safe...

 

[iant]

Thanks Judy,
I'll wait.
Ian

 

[Dan W.]

Hi Ian, I'm sorry I can't answer your question any better. The only in depth info I have is the same Masters Series book. I'll let you know if I find any more good info; let me know if you find any as well...lol

-- I don't know why others don't think this is white pine..? It sure looks like JWP to me. It looks like it was grown out in the ground, which totally makes sense as to why the needles are longer (my first assumption anyway). Yours actually looks very similar to my small zushio aside from the needle length...which I think will resolve itself as you proceed with the techniques for shortening nodes and back-budding...etc.

It looks like it will be a great tree

Is it grafted? and do you mind sharing where you got it?

 

[Dan W.]

Try these sites:

http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATJapaneseWhitePine.htm

http://www.adamsbonsai.com/pine_foliage.pdf

 

[iant]

Thanks Dan!
I appreciate your support! I've seen the bonsai4me article but I hadn't seen the adamsbonsai article. Thanks!
I got the pine from Chris at Telperion this spring. It's not grafted. So I'm in a borderline location for a non-grafted JWP (it's a little warm in summer and not that cold in the winter here.) Hopefully I can keep it happy. I'll trim it back some this Nov or so and get a better look at the structure. It also needs to get some light into the center. Next spring I'll probably follow the Master Series book's advice of pinching candles 'when they are almost ready to open.'
Thanks again,
Ian

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

For what it's worth, these photos are from a book that's entirely in Japanese (so I can't credit it), but demonstrate the technique you're asking about.
Even without reading it, I suspect you can get what you need by the photos:

Spring Candle-equalizing:


Summer Reducing:


Fall Pruning: