Collecting Juniper Yamadori - First time lessons learned/tips?

[walee]

About a week ago, I went on my first Juniper Yamadori collecting trip and brought home two fine specimens which I'm praying to the gods, will survive. This was an extremely fun and memorable experience for me, but I feel no amount of reading would have probably fully prepared me for what I was going to face in the field, and thus, I have returned with quite a few questions for the community.

Both trees were extremely hard to dig though. I first tried digging a trench around the canopy and cutting any roots larger than 1". I then gently moved radially inward poking the dirt with a screw driver to loosen the soil around the roots. This proved difficult because I kept running into large chunks of rocks which would tear off clusters of tender roots as they were plucked off. My god, there are no words to express the dread that you feel rush down your body when you head that faithful root snap when you tug the tree around. All in all, I think my lesson learned is to try and take as much dirt near the base of the tree, as I possibly can, and just worry later about the archeological endeavor that it is to gently removing soil without destroying roots.

Is there any advise from the community on how to best dig out the trees without completely obliterating the fine roots? Whats the best method to dig under the rootball and lift the tree out without large chunks of soil crumbling off and taking roots with it!

Anyways, if you've made it this far, I appreciate your time, and here are a couple photos of trees I chose:
- The first tree had an absolutely MASSIVE trunk and was relatively loose, so I thought that would make for an easy harvest (not really).
- The second tree had a really nice thick 2-3" trunk, a relatively short compact canopy for its size, and was growing berries which really attracted me to it (but I now realize berries may be a sign of stress on the tree ).



I would also like to send a shoutout to @PaulH, who was very helpful when I reach out to him. Ty

 

[DanaWhicker]

I don't have any advice. Digging out trees that are larger than seedlings is a lot of work.

That one with the big trunk is amazing!

 

[walee]

Digging out trees that are larger than seedlings is a lot of work.

oh my god... I think each tree took me at least 4-5 hours, and by the time I finished digging the trench around the second tree, I had three blisters on my hand and my arms were starting to cramp. Only to realize the slow, careful, technical work was still left to be done. Thankfully I brought a headlamp.

That one with the big trunk is amazing!

Isn't that one awesome? My biggest challenge now is figuring how I'm going to orientate that into a pot in the future! I currently have it standing straight upright in a 15" planter.

 

[Housguy]

I dig these Utah's out yearly, first thing you need to do asap, is put the trees under some type of misting system for 3 minute intervals 2 to 3 times a day! If you watered them heavy already, just have the misters do the work from this point on in a shady area and water very sparingly until you start to see new growth. This can take months, but once the new growth is appearing, put out into full sun and water on a more regular basis. Also, don't do any work on the trees, let them work there way through the collection process and in 2 years, you can probably start to do some work on your new trees! Good luck!

 

[PonderingSage:]

I would say to look for trees where the roots can be contained, like a pocket of dirt/gravel surrounded by rock. That way the roots don’t go everywhere and the taproot can’t run too wild. In a situation
Iike this the tree would be forced to grow lateral roots. Try to get a good root mass and l wouldn’t bare root.

Also, practice on some lower stakes trees. To build up your skillset, you loose a 500 year old tree like that one (l have too), it doesn’t feel good.
Mist it in the evenings and give it some shade. Good luck

 

[walee]

I dig these Utah's out yearly, first thing you need to do asap, is put the trees under some type of misting system for 3 minute intervals 2 to 3 times a day!...

Thank you, I do not plan to jump the gun and do any work on them whatsoever. I've also planted them in 100% pumice with a nice deep watering then wrapped the planter in plastic, then set up misters all over the canopy, I've currently got the timer watering at around 6 times a day at 5min intervals, so it sounds like I will probably need to dial that back a little. I have another thread going for the aftercare of these trees (sort of double dipping hahah sorry) LINK HERE, that shows my potting and set up.

I would say to look for trees where the roots can be contained, like a pocket of dirt/gravel surrounded by rock. That way the roots don’t go everywhere and the taproot can’t run too wild...

Ohhhh thats a very good point. Ugghhh.. I'm realizing i probably got beginner's excitement and attempted something out of my league. The tree was loose, so I thought it would be a good candidate but there were definitely lateral roots when I started digging. I've definitely learned a lesson about knowing when to stop digging, I was definitely thinking about out on the field, but by the time I'd dug around the tree canopy and explored enough, I was more worried whether the tree would survive in the state I'd left it in, if I had just decided to backfill the hole.

 

[Mikecheck123]

I think you've got the right idea. The most important thing is to dig a trench so that you can cut the roots going downward rather than trying to pry it up with a shovel.

My only other advice I think you learned the hard way--estimate how long you think it will take, and then double it.

 

[Housguy]

so it sounds like I will probably need to dial that back a little.

It probably doesn't matter from 3 to 5 minutes, the trees will be finely misted probably even after a minute, but I settled on 3 to make sure

 

[walee]

It probably doesn't matter from 3 to 5 minutes, the trees will be finely misted probably even after a minute, but I settled on 3 to make sure

I meant frequency of waterings haha you said 2-3 times a day, I’ve currently got it set at 6 times a day I mist for 5 mins to hopefully get enough spray to trickle down to the lower branches too. Now I just need to figure out what’s a safe humidity level to keep the tree at because I want to avoid having to deal with mold/rot.

 

[Housguy]

Well, the Utah junipers we dig up grow in the dry desert mountains, so they don't need any or much humidity at all, they are used to dry weather. Never have seen any fungus on my Utah's in the last 8 years of collecting them. The only problem I have experienced with these trees, is scale, I found scale on one of my Utah's this year and knocked it out with some neem, now the tree is fine.

 

[walee]

Well, the Utah junipers we dig up grow in the dry desert mountains, so they don't need any or much humidity at all, they are used to dry weather. Never have seen any fungus on my Utah's in the last 8 years of collecting them. The only problem I have experienced with these trees, is scale, I found scale on one of my Utah's this year and knocked it out with some neem, now the tree is fine.

Yikes, scale on a recovering juniper sounds like a recipe for death I've already noticed the gnats finding their way into my comfy humid enclosure. Will probably have to open up the sides a bit to give it a little more ventilation.

 

[LuZiKui]

Any update on these?

 

[walee]

Any update on these?

I'll be tracking my updates on this thread over in the 'Junipers' forum, but as of now, status updates on the trees aside from saying my nightly prayer to the Yamadori gods:

Collected Juniper Yamadori Aftercare - humidity tent v. open misting

After collecting my first juniper last week, I wanted to create a thread to share my experience/journey through it's aftercare and also ask for some suggestions to help improve my setup. For me, harvesting was really rough, the terrain was basically rock scree, and fine roots kept tearing off...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I have no experience collecting in such dry conditions . Most of my collecting is done out of rock pockets in the Canadian Shield . Or wind cold tortured trees . Any advice I have involves tools . First up a small extremely sturdy shovel I use what is called a drain shovel square blade extra sturdy handle . Modified by using a file to sharpen the leading edge . Next up
A collecting knife forget the name . Actually sold in Japan for collecting bonsai . 8 inch straight blade serrated on one edge and sharpened on the other essentialy a very sharp garden trawel . Third you need a root saw having destroyed several folding saws the ground is not forgiving to saw in . I have progressed to a handle that accepts Reciprocal saw blades . Used in construction . Blades are disposable and avail i. Multiple levels of tooth aversion . At any hardware outlet . Small and light to carry several different blades and one handle . ( have one of the cordless new smaller reciprocal saws that takes batteries I already have on x mass list ) Emergency survival in the woods sold tool is essentially a chain saw chain with 2 handles again small easy to carry great for large roots . A highest enough quility bypass pruner . That has replacement blades . My go to is a cross of a hand pruner and a long handle pruner . Modern composite handles about 1.5 feet long And last a light foam water proof kneeling pad . Great for old bodies and wet ground . As for collecting biggest advice I have is secret is to disturb the soil in the Center of rootball as little as possible in the field even going to the length to wrap and secure a trenched root ball before digging under . I have progressed to everything goes rootball and field soil into a water soak overnight to 24 hours may not be beneficial To very dry soil that falls from small roots easily And a overlooked part is to wrap the base and trunk . To protect the bark while digging and transporting . First thing I do . I use common plastic packaging materials. Reused or bubble wrap .

 

[walee]

@Frozentreehugger, thank you for the suggestions, I definitely brought a sawzall with Diablo Pruning blades for the roots, it only makes logical sense especially how the rocks/soil absolutely destroys any all blades. That and the root slayer shovel definitely did wonders for me. That didn't do much to stop the blisters, but definitely saved me from worse!

 

[BrianBay9]

In my experience the most important factors in success are selection of the site, and selection of the tree. I know sometimes you don't have much choice in the site. It may be the only place you can get permission to dig.

But as stated above, best site is a stone ridge with eroded pockets that collect litter and soil. Trees that sprout in those remain small and have compact root balls. As you discovered, a site with loose soil and gravel grows trees with long, sprawling roots.

If you have a good site, then you need to select trees that are not locked into cracks in the stone. The whole root zone should move when you rock the trunk. At that point collection is easy, usually requiring cutting just a few supporting roots.

I would spend most of my collecting trips finding the right tree. The right tree may literally be one in a thousand. Once selected I don't think I ever spent more than 15-20 minutes actually getting the tree out.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I agree site selection and tree selection is critical . As I said the terrain around here often creates . Pockets or small amount of growing media . With a lot of large rocky areas . Yes the best trees are easy 15 minute digs . But patients also is helpful . Trees can be improved fir collection success .cutting back trees in the wild often promotes great back budding while they have all there original roots . . Trees growing in poor media or long spreading roots con have root work done in the field . Add better media around the base and slow release fert . Quality trees can be hard to find there worth the effort of a couple of years of work . To promote there survival In a dry situation like the southwest consider moisture retentive soil . If you have access to the trees regular watering is a option . . There is a technique of digging roots near the trunk and place them in a sealed bag full of moisture retebtative soil that may help . An old dwarfed tree clinging to life in a harsh conditions needs to be respected . And givin the best chance of the transition to a pot not just wanked out of the ground because it’s nice material

 

[walee]

At that point collection is easy, usually requiring cutting just a few supporting roots.

Very insightful advise! From my experience, It was definitely very tough to find those ideal conditions, especially when you're limited to sites where you're given permission to dig

Trees can be improved fir collection success .cutting back trees in the wild often promotes great back budding while they have all there original roots . .

Very sound advice, thank you. Though I feel this only works if people respect the site you're collecting from. I'd be more worried that when I return, someone else has also found my tree to be the perfect candidate for collection

Any update on these?

I've updated the other thread with my Junipers' progress.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Very insightful advise! From my experience, It was definitely very tough to find those ideal conditions, especially when you're limited to sites where you're given permission to dig


Very sound advice, thank you. Though I feel this only works if people respect the site you're collecting from. I'd be more worried that when I return, someone else has also found my tree to be the perfect candidate for collection


I've updated the other thread with my Junipers' progress.

I have never had someone take my tree . As popular as bonsai is we lose sight of the fact most people have no idea what we are up to and don’t care . If your in a known quility collecting area maybe . But if it’s there when you found it chances are it will be there in 1 or 2 years . I think it’s prudent to somewhat apply some stealth and hide your work . I have experienced people must likely hikers take interest in stuff and screw around with it . Sort of ha look at that what’s someone up to with this tree that looks 1/2 dead they can make a mess of stuff with lack of care . But it’s a pretty safe bet the tree will be still there . I once heard a bonsai enthusiast. Say it would be very cool to go collecting in Japan like the ultimate trip . First I told him it’s illegal to go collect there then I showed him a comparison size nap of Japan and North America and asked why would you want to go there . Point is there is always other trees yes some sites and species are unique but there is lots to collect that no body cares one way or the anther treasure to us but most don’t care