Always-kept-in-small-pot progress photos wanted

[SharonP]

I live in Wisconsin and am active in a local bonsai club, though new to this forum. I have a question about trunk girth.

I have over 20 trees, mostly Shohin-size indoor tropical like Vietnamese bluebell, Ficus, Ixora, Jaboticaba, etc. The indoor trees are on one shelf of my small indoor craft room (see photo). They are under good lights and are housed in generously-sized bonsai pots. I keep them trimmed back so they don't block one another's light. In addition, the shelf is too crowded and the room is much too small for 20 trees to each have an 8' sacrifice branch growing on them.

Keeping them in bonsai pots and trimmed on a regular basis for the next 20 years (I'm 59 now), I am curious what kind of trunk girth growth to expect--if any. I've read that keeping a developing tree in a bonsai pot slows growth "3-10 times" compared to allowing unfettered growth in a huge container or (better yet) planted in the ground outdoors and trunk chopping every few years.

Let's say I have a Ficus with a trunk diameter of 1 inch right now. If I continue keeping the tree in a bonsai pot and pinching it back regularly, what will the trunk look like in 20 years? Will the trunk girth get to 1.1 inches? 2 inches? A 5 inch sumo trunk? I've searched a lot online, but can't find any photos showing trunk girth progress photos of a young tree kept in a bonsai pot over many years. If anybody has some photos, I'd love to see them.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Welcome. While I can't give exact figures, pinching and keeping the trees in small containers will seriously limit trunk growth. The trunk will thicken up over 20 years, but what you are doing is what folks would typically do to maintain the size of the tree already developed, as opposed to growing out the trunk further.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Welcome to the site! I cannot help you with your request (progress photos) though my experience is that if you restrain the roots (by keeping it in a bonsai pot) and restrain the foliage (by pinching/pruning) the tree doesn't really need a thicker trunk, and so won't grow one - except very slowly. If you want a thicker trunk you should let the foliage run out of control for a season... and then prune it back to your silhouette. Or else you can let a part of the tree grow free as sacrifice growth - with the intention that you will remove it in the future.

I have a juniper that I have owned for 29 years and it has thickened up very little because I kept it pruned and in a bonsai pot. About four years ago I took it out of the pot and put it in a nursery container and I am finally seeing robust growth and trunk thickening.

 

[jeremy_norbury]

I have many examples of small trees in pots which have remained small trees in pots even after 15-20 years.

- Korean hornbeam - in a pot since purchase in 2008: https://www.flickr.com/photos/norbury/albums/72157625467678128/
- Mountain maples/Rowan - since 2008 in a pot: https://www.flickr.com/photos/norbury/albums/72157625787024278/
- Dwarf Alberta spruce - 2003: https://www.flickr.com/photos/norbury/albums/72157625646378267/
- Acer palmatum katsura 2012: https://www.flickr.com/photos/norbury/albums/72157631762117126/
- Acer campestre/Field or Hedge maple - 2005: https://www.flickr.com/photos/norbury/albums/72157696614864944/
- Korean hornbeam 2007: https://www.flickr.com/photos/norbury/albums/72157625467362890/
- Wych elm 2009: https://www.flickr.com/photos/norbury/albums/72157636381541935/

In all cases, barely any additional height increase has occurred. Some of the smaller trees DID get fatter and their nebari grew.

 

[JeffS73]

I just picked up a Premna Japonica that was grown in a 2in wide by 3in deep pot for 8 (they claimed 15) years. Complwtely pot bound, pushing out the pot. Trunk is like ¼in wide, but bark has definitely aged.

 

[Paradox]

I think some species can increase girth in a pot better than others.

I took a willow leaf ficus from a pencil sized trunk to over a 2 inch trunk in a few years only growing in a bonsai pot, just upgrading the size of the pot as it grew.

 

[hardtimes]

I believe this channel has all of his trees in small pots going back 6 years now. Some are noticeably tricker now especially the pomegranate

https://youtube.com/@BackGardenBonsai?si=vp36rLTaKByQSTaa

 

[SharonP]

Welcome to the site! I cannot help you with your request (progress photos) though my experience is that if you restrain the roots (by keeping it in a bonsai pot) and restrain the foliage (by pinching/pruning) the tree doesn't really need a thicker trunk, and so won't grow one - except very slowly. If you want a thicker trunk you should let the foliage run out of control for a season... and then prune it back to your silhouette. Or else you can let a part of the tree grow free as sacrifice growth - with the intention that you will remove it in the future.

I have a juniper that I have owned for 29 years and it has thickened up very little because I kept it pruned and in a bonsai pot. About four years ago I took it out of the pot and put it in a nursery container and I am finally seeing robust growth and trunk thickening.

Wow, very interesting--thanks for sharing. I had been assuming that after 20 years or so, there would be at least a doubling of trunk size, but maybe not!

 

[SharonP]

I have many examples of small trees in pots which have remained small trees in pots even after 15-20 years.

- Korean hornbeam - in a pot since purchase in 2008: https://www.flickr.com/photos/norbury/albums/72157625467678128/
- Mountain maples/Rowan - since 2008 in a pot: https://www.flickr.com/photos/norbury/albums/72157625787024278/
- Dwarf Alberta spruce - 2003: https://www.flickr.com/photos/norbury/albums/72157625646378267/
- Acer palmatum katsura 2012: https://www.flickr.com/photos/norbury/albums/72157631762117126/
- Acer campestre/Field or Hedge maple - 2005: https://www.flickr.com/photos/norbury/albums/72157696614864944/
- Korean hornbeam 2007: https://www.flickr.com/photos/norbury/albums/72157625467362890/
- Wych elm 2009: https://www.flickr.com/photos/norbury/albums/72157636381541935/

In all cases, barely any additional height increase has occurred. Some of the smaller trees DID get fatter and their nebari grew.

Thanks Jerry, that was JUST what I wanted to see. Very nice of you to take the time to post these. You've got some really beautiful trees. It's interesting that some get a bit fatter and some are still the same after over 20 years! Makes me wonder now if trees in the wild that are in perilous locations (growing out of a small crack in the rock) could be a lot older than I guessed.

 

[SharonP]

I just picked up a Premna Japonica that was grown in a 2in wide by 3in deep pot for 8 (they claimed 15) years. Complwtely pot bound, pushing out the pot. Trunk is like ¼in wide, but bark has definitely aged.

Wow! Amazing it lived that long in such a tiny pot, the size that will die if not watered like 3 times a day.

 

[SharonP]

I believe this channel has all of his trees in small pots going back 6 years now. Some are noticeably tricker now especially the pomegranate

https://youtube.com/@BackGardenBonsai?si=vp36rLTaKByQSTaa

Thanks for the channel recommendation. I just went to check them out. My pomegranate is one of my thinnest trees, so I'm glad to see that one might have some hope of thickening up.

 

[Shibui]

Growth in a pot seems to depend on a number of factors.
I've found a couple of species that thicken up despite being in small pots and regularly trimmed. Ficus rubiginosa is one that I just cannot stop the trunks thickening. Every few years I need to up the pot size because the trunks simply will not fit back into the previous size.
Here's a very small ficus rubiginosa - about 3 years old now. I might get it back in the same pot next time but probably not. I'll have to look for photos of the older figs.

Banksia species are another that continue to thicken despite being crammed in small pots. They do grow faster in larger containers and in the ground but growth in pots is still staggering.
Banksia serrata. Unfortunately no scale in the photo but the trunk is close to 6" diameter. Around 15 years from seed.

The other species I work with all appear to slow growth when confined to pots and/or trimmed regularly. That's frustrating if you are in a hurry but even though results are very slow, trees developed slowly in pots are generally much superior for bonsai to fast grown trees. Better control over trunk shape and bends, better ramification of branching, better nebari and rootage adapted to container growing, fewer scars.

 

[Guy Smiley]

Here is a Ficus Benjamin ‘too little’ in December 2019 and how it looks today. Ficus can grow pretty fast even when kept in a small pot.

 

[Colorado]

Yep, as already mentioned above, in my experience ficus species will put on significant trunk growth even in a tiny pot.

Here is an example of a ficus I grew in a tiny mame pot (later placed into a slightly larger pot for escape roots) for the last couple years from a very small cutting. Trunk is now almost a half inch.

 

[shohin_branches]

Hello Sharon! I'm also in Wisconsin in the Milwaukee area.

I have a good example of this with Portulacaria afra. The tree on the right I've had for around 15 years starting as a 2 inch houseplant and was first put in a bonsai pot in 2019. It's never been in a pot larger than 6 inches and it went years without fertilizer.

The tree on the left is a cutting I took from the right tree two years ago when it was destroyed by a squirrel attack and I had to prune the damage away. You can see how tight the space between the nodes are on the trunk of the right tree vs the left tree and how much more textured the bark is but the cutting in the big pot has almost caught up in trunk diameter.

 

[Paradox]

ok I Found some pictures of a willow leaf ficus
I got this tree in 2014 with a trunk the size of a pencil.
Unfortunately I dont have a picture of it from then but I have taken pictures since then.

June 2015 - about the size of my thumb


Up potted at some point
August 2016


December 2019



January 2021

 

[MSGhero]

This is a long thread about someone growing ficus in a colder area. I'm actually almost 1 year into a comparison between her method of up- and down-sizing pots versus sizing up when "necessary." It's not that long yet, but my upsized one is backbudding about 20x more than my other one. It may not be relevant to your other types, but seems doable with ficus.

Ficus in The cold north ( Denmark) - Page 2

Peter Svetoslavov wrote:Great ficus, Yvonne! Congratulations! Can you show us older photos of them? Hej Peter I have taken photos of photos, from 1994, 1999, an

ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com

 

[Shibui]

I can't find older photos of these ficus rubiginosas but have some over the past 15 years or so. Unfortunately no scale in most to appreciate trunk increase

2007 - 5-10 years old?


2010

2011

2019

Note that all 3 of these trees are from the same batch of seed. The big tree is 2 seedlings fused and grown in a large grow box for 5 years while the smaller siblings were developed in 4" diameter pots. Smaller twin trunk is also 2 seedlings planted close and fused.

Photos from today:


A couple of younger small ficus - around 5 or 6 years old from seed.



Another banksia trunk in development. This one around 10 years.

 

[Maiden69]

I only have one that has been in a pot since a cutting, and like most above, it is a ficus but tiger bark. Cutting taken early 2021 from a small branch. I grow them in water half way up the pot, kinda like bald cypresses.

September 2022


March 2023




August 2023

 

[SharonP]

Thanks so much to everybody who contributed here. This thread now has a bonanza of great progression photos for trees that are always kept in bonsai pots, and a few comparisons with siblings in bigger pots. It looks like it's definitely species-dependent, with ficus being the champion in growing trunk girth while potted. So now I have hope that at least a subset of my trees will be chunkier when I donate them to other club members in 20 years.