Pseudomonas syringae?
- Thread starter Steven1969s
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NOZZLE HEAD
Shohin
The only thing you can really do is trim off the affected foliage, if it is Pseudomonas syringae, or another bacteria.
There is streptomycin for foliar applications out there, but all it will do is stop the spread. Sterilize your pruning tools.
There is streptomycin for foliar applications out there, but all it will do is stop the spread. Sterilize your pruning tools.
bwaynef
Masterpiece
I haven't solved pseudomonas yet. There are several fungicides that list it among diseases they treat. Usually once I see the beginning of the decline, there isn't much that can be done to stem the tide. Clean your tools.
Steven1969s
Mame
Thanks.
Ohmy222
Shohin
Very possible it is something else. Freezing has nothing to do with Pseudomonas. Either way cut it out. Black often is just die back. If you see black at the soil level then you will likely lose the whole tree.
Leo in N E Illinois
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Pseudomonas syringae is a BACTERIA, which means it is not a fungus, fungicides will not work, at all. Tetracycline is what the fruit orchard industry uses for Pseudomonas. Hit an aquarium shop, several antibiotics are sold for aquarium use. The ones for gram negative bacteria are probably the ones you want, usually has tetracycline in the mix. Or if there is an antibiotic for fish that is more broad spectrum for both gram positive and gram negative bacteria, use that in case I mis-remembered which category Pseudomonas belongs to.
Mix up at dilution rate used for fish, you can probably safely double the strength recommended for fish. Then spray over your affected tree and drench the soil with the antibiotic solution. Only make up what you need. Once diluted the antibiotic solution will only last about 12+ hours until it breaks down.
You could also spray with hydrogen peroxide, it is topical only, in that it will only work on immediate contact with the infected tissues. I'd use a 1% solution, dilute the Rx grade which is 3%, dilute 2:1 with water to make 1%. Though 3 % as is will cause no real damage to the plant itself.
Good luck, Pseudomonas is difficult to treat. Best avoided by ensuring a sunny location with good air movement.
Mix up at dilution rate used for fish, you can probably safely double the strength recommended for fish. Then spray over your affected tree and drench the soil with the antibiotic solution. Only make up what you need. Once diluted the antibiotic solution will only last about 12+ hours until it breaks down.
You could also spray with hydrogen peroxide, it is topical only, in that it will only work on immediate contact with the infected tissues. I'd use a 1% solution, dilute the Rx grade which is 3%, dilute 2:1 with water to make 1%. Though 3 % as is will cause no real damage to the plant itself.
Good luck, Pseudomonas is difficult to treat. Best avoided by ensuring a sunny location with good air movement.
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
I am resurrecting this thread because I have a group of two and three year old seedlings that appear to have this disease. I pulled 16 maple that have died or are dying, just within the last couple of weeks. A few more have wilted significantly in the past few days. I appreciate Leo's sage advice above but I wonder if others are having this issue. Has anyone used Phyton 35? It is recommended, but before I spend over a hundred bucks on an 8 ounce bottle I hope to get a bit more feedback.
These maples affected are a loss, and it is a darn shame because they were from a group of seeds representing at least a dozen cultivars and some of them were quite unique. I just want to prevent this crap from affecting my collection of JM cultivars that numbers about 60 with some hard to find varieties. Plus I have another 200 seedlings, layers and cuttings for some nice stock.
These maples affected are a loss, and it is a darn shame because they were from a group of seeds representing at least a dozen cultivars and some of them were quite unique. I just want to prevent this crap from affecting my collection of JM cultivars that numbers about 60 with some hard to find varieties. Plus I have another 200 seedlings, layers and cuttings for some nice stock.
I used to use Lysol and bleach regularly. Bleach can be used in spray if you go by smell, it has to be just under where you can smell it if sprayed on a sheet of paper, not at 10% recommended on some articles or in the lab. The real Lysol concentrated kind contains the qac's/ quaternary compound you are likely to get with the brand name bactericide but different emulsifier. Again, at serious dilution can be sprayed but just in case cover soil.
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
I am bringing this back to the top because I know several of you have dealt with this and I am open to advice. Per Leo's advice, today I am spraying all of these maples and those in the region of these maples with 1% peroxide. This afternoon I am heading to the pet store for an antibiotic. Has anyone here used Phyton 35? I don't mind spending a hundred to save a few thousand, but I don't want to waste time and money if the product doesn't give me the results I am seeking. I know that the way this disease has progressed I can't sit on my hands. I was literally up much of the night thinking about it.
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
Well I guess it surprises me that I am the only one here that has experienced this problem to this degree. Leo's old post was helpful, and I am using peroxide to help contain the problem but it is not a curative. Antibiotics like tetracycline are no longer sold at pet shops and online sources like Amazon and eBay don't sell it as well. I think there was an overuse of it and it is now tightly regulated. I guess I will go with the Phyton 35, which apparently is just some sort of super copper formula with warning labels that are intimidating. I had to ditch 18 one gallon JMs, and I am concerned about a 16 year old JM bonsai that is looking feeble. I'll be out with the peroxide again to do my best to keep this contained.
No, its just that the general spirit is that if this is a problem in your area you cant do much about it. I cant keep any red twig group JMs for that reason (Bi-Hoo, Sangokaku etc.). While some other cultivars seem just about immune.
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
I understand that but I have been planting JMs for more decades than some people here have been alive. I do not claim to be an expert on them, that is why I'm here. But I do have a considerable investment in them.
Kanorin
Omono
I lost one and have two others affected by Pseudomonas this year as well, but nothing too valuable. This blog post by Michael Hagedorn is more about prevention, but lists copper sulfate and phyton 35 as treatments. My two that were effected are both Arakawa maples. What I've done so far is water with 1% hydrogen peroxide, flushed roots with water 20 mins later, then I tipped the pots up to increase drainage and put them in full sun. Since doing that about 2 weeks ago, the spreading seems to have stopped or at least slowed down. Jury is still out if those two will make it.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Phyton 35 is copper sulfate. And if you are having problems with pseudomonas, check to make sure you aren't using organics in your soil mix, and check your organic fertilizer (no composted chicken manure or cow manure, for example).
Why?
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
I was surprised when I went to their site and saw it was a form of copper. Seems like a huge price to pay. The 18 maples that are dead are in almost 100% 0rganic growers mix that I have been using virtually unchanged for over 40 years. It is a variation of what almost all nurseries use that is tweaked for individual climate and such. It really is not feasible for me two grow hundreds of pots from 4 inches to 20 gallon using a bonsai mix. At any rate, the death seems to have been isolated. I have one significant JM that is on the opposite side of the house in a bonsai mix that may or may not have pseudomonas, but it took a turn 2 days ago and all of its inner leaves turned bright autumn red in the morning and brown a crispy in the evening. I don't think it is the same, hope not. I was repotted fairly late in the season, a few weeks ago, so it may be reacting to that assault.
Thanks for pitching in .
Leo in N E Illinois
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more or less yes, copper sulfate
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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sorry I have no new news on cures for Pseudomonas. I have tried Zertol instead of pharmacy Hydrogen Peroxide. I had no plant tissue damage even at 5% active peroxide. Diluted 30% active Zertol until it was about 5% . I had no damage to plant tissue. Algae and some moss was burned, which was fine.
But Zertol is topical, not systemic. It won't cure a tree once internally infected.
But Zertol is topical, not systemic. It won't cure a tree once internally infected.
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Leo in N E Illinois
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I forget the dose rate I use for Phyton 35.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
This is an interesting topic that I have been reading up on lately because having moved to NC I am seeing an increase in issues related to fungus which I never experienced in the dry air and intense sun of SoCal. Any time you read up on fungus on Japanese maples, pseudomonas is not far behind.
Pseudomonas can be a highly beneficial member of your soil biome, and may provide benefits related to plant growth, nutrient solubility, degradation of organic pollutants, etc. It can even provide protection against some fungi and insect pests. However pseudomonas populations are opportunistic and can damage or kill Japanese maples (that are usually injured or stressed in other ways). Since JM in bonsai culture are often on the receiving end of root trimming and branch pruning, and are stressed by methods like defoliation, they can be susceptible to pseudomonas infection - particularly if you use a high loam organic mix and/or organic fertilizers that include animal manure, which create conditions for very high populations of pseudomonas in the soil.
So this is one of these cases where it appears that "if a little is good, a lot is not necessarily better" particularly if you are dealing with JM that have recently been root trimmed, or JM air-layers that have large wounds that will come into direct contact with the soil. I have gathered quite a number of JM cultivars over the last four years, and I started by keeping them in organic "raised bed" soil mixes that included composted cow manure. I literally lost 50% of all trees that I planted in this mix. I have since switched to 50% pumice and 50% pine bark fines, and haven't lost a tree. I'm not saying that every tree that I lost was lost to a pseudomonas infection, but many had the signs - branch die-back with blackened veins.
So this is why I recommend people proceed cautiously with organics with Japanese maples.
