Where did superfly get Haydite from?

[Bonsai Nut]

See my additions to this thread:

Haydite. your take

I am looking at some haydite. I love the look of it, color and such, and I am probably going to give it a try. Not looking to evoke soil wars, but I am curious about others experiences with it. Thank you.

www.bonsainut.com

Haydite is only made by one company - though it may have several different production facilities.

 

[Alfi]

A simple google search tells who the owner was and there's a link to contact him directly. He's been responsive on facebook, though I haven't contacted him in a while. A buddy of mine contacted him after his business closed and got a response. This stuff doesn't have to be a mystery.

It doesn’t, but the previous owner isn’t responding. Even when in business they never responded to my emails.

 

[Alfi]

No derailing. Straight out offer to you. Superfly likely got it from the same company as I did, but a different furnace located in his state. Post a photo of the haydite you got from Superfly. When I get home from work, I'll post mine.

Are you in the USA or Canada or where? As you are new to Bonsai Nut, you should know that it is considered good form to put your location in your profile.

I just messaged the person behind Superfly Bonsai (can't give his name because I don't dox people). If I find out his source, I'll let you know. Then we'll see if it's worth the drive. You'll likely have to bring a trailer capable of carrying more than 2,000lbs. It's sold by the cubic yard.

Any luck?

 

[Alfi]

Bump

 

[LuZiKui]

My man, there is nothing left to bump here. There is one manufacturer of Haydite per Bonsai Nut's last post. Superfly is out of business. Bills Bayou OFFERED TO SELL YOU SOME. Time to move on.

 

[Alfi]

BonsaiNut stated there was one manufacturer of haydite, but didn’t specify who that was. It’s also possible superfly’s haydite wasn’t actually haydite then if they didn’t get it from this supplier.

BillsBayou said he would ask superfly to see if he has the same source, but I haven’t heard back, hence the bump.

This shouldn’t be this difficult…but it is.

 

[19Mateo83]

BonsaiNut stated there was one manufacturer of haydite, but didn’t specify who that was. It’s also possible superfly’s haydite wasn’t actually haydite then if they didn’t get it from this supplier.

BillsBayou said he would ask superfly to ask if his source is the same source as superfly, but I haven’t heard back, hence the bump.

This shouldn’t be this difficult…but it is.

Keep beating that dead horse buddy.

 

[LuZiKui]

BonsaiNut stated there was one manufacturer of haydite, but didn’t specify who that was. It’s also possible superfly’s haydite wasn’t actually haydite then if they didn’t get it from this supplier.

BillsBayou said he would ask superfly to see if he has the same source, but I haven’t heard back, hence the bump.

This shouldn’t be this difficult…but it is.

PER THE LINK THAT BONSAI NUT PROVIDED-Buildex/Haydite = expanded shale product, manufactured by Buildex, Inc, Ottawa, Kansas

This shouldn't be this difficult... but it is.

 

[Alfi]

PER THE LINK THAT BONSAI NUT PROVIDED-Buildex/Haydite = expanded shale product, manufactured by Buildex, Inc, Ottawa, Kansas

This shouldn't be this difficult... but it is.

How did you verify this is the source they used?

 

[Alfi]

Maybe the first step should have been to verify exactly what “haydite” superfly used actually is. Researched for hours, and people use the term haydite for vastly different materials. It’s possible thats not even what this substate is.

I guess I need to find someone who can expertly identify what it is. Im not sure anyone here can. I will try emailing some companies.

 

[hemmy]

guess I need to find someone who can expertly identify what it is.

Can you take close up pictures with better lighting? Maybe use a coin for scale and zoom to a few particles filling the frame. Break some particles to see the amount of expanded porosity, if the outside is mostly sintered. Expanded shale, clay, and slate (I’ve never seen this one) are obviously mined and tend to be sourced more regionally. I know of 2 shale sources used by Buildex in KS and OK and they look different in texture and color. The ESCSI site has a map by state for aggregate suppliers. There is a shale quarry in Troy, NY and likely one in Pennsylvania.

Member List - ESCSI

Explore our member companies across the United States by hovering over each state on the map to discover local listings.

www.escsi.org

 

[Lorax7]

This may be the silliest thread I’ve ever read on BNut. Can I get a refund on the 10 minutes of my life I spent reading it?

 

[Paradox]

This may be the silliest thread I’ve ever read on BNut. Can I get a refund on the 10 minutes of my life I spent reading it?

Never! You'll get old with the rest of us

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Maybe the first step should have been to verify exactly what “haydite” superfly used actually is. Researched for hours, and people use the term haydite for vastly different materials. It’s possible thats not even what this substate is.

I guess I need to find someone who can expertly identify what it is. Im not sure anyone here can. I will try emailing some companies.

"Haydite" is not a product description. It is registered trademark owned by Buildex for their expanded shale - and it is manufactured only by Buildex. There are lots of landscape distributors/wholesalers who carry Haydite, but they all get it from Buildex.

Buildex has Haydite plants in Ottawa, KS, Marquette, KS, and New Market, MO. I have not spoken to the company about whether they use the exact same shale at each location, or if there are slight variations.

Note that in the case of Turface, which is also manufactured in different locations, the product DOES differ based on where it is produced because they have access to different clays in different locations. The Turface product meets the same universal performance standards for its designed use as an sports field aggregate, however it may have a slightly different appearance, and may perform slightly differently when used in agriculture, depending on where it is sourced. This is based on a conversation I had with the company.

 

[Lorax7]

Never! You'll get old with the rest of us

I don’t wanna grow up! I’m a Toys ‘R Us kid!

 

[Alfi]

Can you take close up pictures with better lighting? Maybe use a coin for scale and zoom to a few particles filling the frame. Break some particles to see the amount of expanded porosity, if the outside is mostly sintered. Expanded shale, clay, and slate (I’ve never seen this one) are obviously mined and tend to be sourced more regionally. I know of 2 shale sources used by Buildex in KS and OK and they look different in texture and color. The ESCSI site has a map by state for aggregate suppliers. There is a shale quarry in Troy, NY and likely one in Pennsylvania.

Member List - ESCSI

Explore our member companies across the United States by hovering over each state on the map to discover local listings.

www.escsi.org

Hi, does this help?
If not i can take more.

 

[rockm]

Hi, does this help?
If not i can take more.

Haydite.

Not expanded slate.
Expanded slate:

Soil Amendment — Stalite Environmental

staliteenvironmental.com

 

[Alfi]

"Haydite" is not a product description. It is registered trademark owned by Buildex for their expanded shale - and it is manufactured only by Buildex. There are lots of landscape distributors/wholesalers who carry Haydite, but they all get it from Buildex.

Buildex has Haydite plants in Ottawa, KS, Marquette, KS, and New Market, MO. I have not spoken to the company about whether they use the exact same shale at each location, or if there are slight variations.

Note that in the case of Turface, which is also manufactured in different locations, the product DOES differ based on where it is produced because they have access to different clays in different locations. The Turface product meets the same universal performance standards for its designed use as an sports field aggregate, however it may have a slightly different appearance, and may perform slightly differently when used in agriculture, depending on where it is sourced. This is based on a conversation I had with the company.

Thanks, super helpful.
I always put “Haydite” in quotes because I still think it’s possible that’s not what this is. Superfly may not be responding because he may know he was selling something else as Haydite.

I think I ruled out Turface because all the imagines Ive seen of it are shades of light brown. This seems to be mostly grey with some brown.

Interestingly enough, I can’t find a single image, anywhere, of Buildex Haydite lol. There’s only one picture on their website and it is wet and looks completely different.

I looked into Natures’s Creation Expanded Shale, but interestingly enough, there are also zero pictures of it on the entire internet lol. This whole thing is so bizarre to me. This Expanded Shale is apparently only from Texas. From the screenshot, you can see they refer to it as Haydite as well, but this is probably not from Buildex.
I had to contact four companies, but eventually I was able to get a picture of it. It doesn’t look anything like Superfly’s (to me).

 

[rockm]

Thanks, super helpful.
I always put “Haydite” in quotes because I still think it’s possible that’s not what this is. Superfly may not be responding because he may know he was selling something else as Haydite.

I think I ruled out Turface because all the imagines Ive seen of it are shades of light brown. This seems to be mostly grey with some brown.

Interestingly enough, I can’t find a single image, anywhere, of Buildex Haydite lol. There’s only one picture on their website and it is wet and looks completely different.

I looked into Natures’s Creation Expanded Shale, but interestingly enough, there are also zero pictures of it on the entire internet lol. This whole thing is so bizarre to me. This Expanded Shale is apparently only from Texas. From the screenshot, you can see they refer to it as Haydite as well, but this is probably not from Buildex.
I had to contact four companies, but eventually I was able to get a picture of it. It doesn’t look anything like Superfly’s (to me).

What you have is expanded shale. Shale is a natural stone, so asking it to be uniform in appearance is not logical. If you do a search on "buildex expanded shale" there are quite a few images, most look like what you're posting .FWIW, I've been doing bonsai going on 30 years. I use haydite and have for decades. What you have is haydite. Sourcing can be spotty with it. Specific requests about what specific vendors use are not realistic. It's not magic.

Expanded Shale

The products we call Expanded shale may be produced from several sources, clay, shale or slate and have several different names depending on what part of the country one lives in.

www.natureswayresources.com

Dirt Doctor - Library Topics

Natural Organic Gardening and Living information, advice and recommendations.

www.dirtdoctor.com

You are being redirected...

Expanded Shale: How To Use It In The Garden

Expanded shale is a soil amendment that is gaining popularity among gardeners in the United States, and for good reason. It can retain moisture, improve soil structure, deter ground-dwelling pests, and it never breaks down, unlike other organic additives. What is Expanded Shale?Expanded shale...

www.earthmix.net

Expanded Shale

Expanded Shale for sale at East Austin Succulents

shop.eastaustinsucculents.com

DuraEdge ProSlide Expanded Shale Topdressing

www.ondecksports.com

 

[Alfi]

What you have is expanded shale. Shale is a natural stone, so asking it to be uniform in appearance is not logical. If you do a search on "buildex expanded shale" there are quite a few images, most look like what you're posting .FWIW, I've been doing bonsai going on 30 years. I use haydite and have for decades. What you have is haydite. Sourcing can be spotty with it. Specific requests about what specific vendors use are not realistic. It's not magic.

Expanded Shale

The products we call Expanded shale may be produced from several sources, clay, shale or slate and have several different names depending on what part of the country one lives in.

www.natureswayresources.com

Dirt Doctor - Library Topics

Natural Organic Gardening and Living information, advice and recommendations.

www.dirtdoctor.com

You are being redirected...

Expanded Shale: How To Use It In The Garden

Expanded shale is a soil amendment that is gaining popularity among gardeners in the United States, and for good reason. It can retain moisture, improve soil structure, deter ground-dwelling pests, and it never breaks down, unlike other organic additives. What is Expanded Shale?Expanded shale...

www.earthmix.net

Expanded Shale

Expanded Shale for sale at East Austin Succulents

shop.eastaustinsucculents.com

DuraEdge ProSlide Expanded Shale Topdressing

www.ondecksports.com

See attached image with search for "buildex expanded shale".
None of these are images of Buildex Haydite, which according to another poster, is trademarked by Buildex. Did you do a quick search?

All of your links are images of expanded shale. Never said I had an issue finding images of that. I can't find an image of Buildex Haydite.
When you said "What you have is haydite.", did you mean to say "What you have is expanded shale."?

Interestingly enough, the only image that looks exactly like what I have is from this forum, but it's Permatil, lol. (second image)

Also, Superfly used to advertise theirs as "Super-Haydite". But...what makes it "Super"? Just marketing gimmicks? Maybe...but maybe not... It may be expanded shale that was in a kiln longer or a higher temperature. Or a different material than Buildex Haydite. Since it was still Expanded Shale, they could have just lied and put the Haydite name on it. Or they could have not not the difference like many on this forum and just called any similar material "Haydite". I could be wrong, but I don't think Buildex sells a Super-Haydite.