Juniper Styling suggestions

[binwow]

I bought a juniper juniper procumbens nana a few months ago and it seems to have settle on his new home, I made some little pruning to provide more airflow and light to inner branches and also transplanted to a 3gallon fabric pot. When I look at my tree I can't find a place to start and I was hoping for some experienced players to give me a hand or two on where to start and what would be the best approach to this Juniper.

If needed I can take more pictures of different views but might need to do a little cleanup before you guys being able to see anything (ex: top view)

 

[bwaynef]

That second pic makes me think there might be an upright trunk to be teased out of that tree. Its hard to tell.

I'd start w/ finding a trunk. Put movement in it if you're able (and I think you would be able to). When you're putting movement in it, put branches on the outside of the curves. Lay those branches down. Clean the bottoms of them. Clean the crotches of them. Leave vigorous tip growth on all remaining branches.

Spend the most time finding the trunk though. It will come together quickly once you do that.

 

[binwow]

Thank you, when I repoted I made sure that all the bottoms on the branches were removed. But yeah I need to spend more time evaluating what can I do with the tree... Will take your suggestions in mind and if I manage to do any changes will post here pictures to get more advices on how to proceed.
ps: complete noob, I have some gardening experience but 0 on bonsai

 

[Shibui]

I find it best to evaluate trees in sections before trying to view it as a whole.
First check the roots to find where the nebari looks best. Roots will also give you the best trunk angle (where best roots are horizontal)
2nd check the lower trunk to see which side shows the best exit from soil, best curves, etc.
3rd check branches, especially lower branches to find which side gives the best view.
4th check any faults - things you would rather not look at which should be hidden at the back or covered with foliage.
5th Any features you really want to show off - shari, interesting bends, etc.

Finally try to combine each of the above elements. It is rare to have all the best features on the same side of the trunk so it's usually a compromise between the best view of each. Bear in mind that different species have different aesthetics - nebari is not so important in juniper bonsai but very important for maples. Also most of the upper branches can be moved or regrown.

You will probably still be overwhelmed with different choices, especially with these junipers as they usually have lots of possibilities. In most trees there are several viable options to develop different shaped trees which leads to indecision and procrastination as we are terrified of making the 'wrong' decision. Change of mindset is required. When you see several possible options and cannot decide which is better that can only mean that all are viable and that means it does not matter which option you choose. Masters have learned to just make a choice so it seems to be almost magic when the go straight form evaluation to decision. If you can't make a final decision try tossing a coin. Whichever choice you make is the correct one. Not making a choice is the worst option as the tree will never develop its potential until you make that choice and get on with bringing it to fruition.

 

[binwow]

I took some more pictures and made rough sketches on photoshop online that might help a bit more (made me more confuse on what to do)



From the second picture I was thinking to remove that big branch and sticking with this front but after seeing from other perspective (pic1) I think that will be impossible to remove that branch due to high chance of scars.. Also the branch crossing over the top makes me feel that he is the real problem here.

 

[Shibui]

A really great feature of juniper bonsai is dead wood.
Junipers naturally grow in really harsh areas - dry, cold, mountains, etc where they contend with hard climate so most junipers in nature have dead branches (jin) or part dead trunks (shari). In Japan junipers are styled with dead wood features to look like the wild cousins so instead of cutting redundant branches right off we can strip the bark and leave a short dead section. Well done this can look great, as if storms or snowfall has killed the branch but the tree survives.
Always look at redundant branches on juniper as possible dead wood features.

 

[binwow]

 

[binwow]

I'm still at a loss with this Juniper, exactly 1 year as passed and I still don't know how to approach this Juniper! It's the only tree species that I have some troubles with lol I'm leaning towards the front on the first picture but where should I go from there? Also do you guys also think the front should be pic 1?

 

[Potawatomi13]

Trunk is still skinny. Let grow until at least big as your wrist. Then worry about major styling.

 

[binwow]

So you shouldn't be giving some shape at this stage? I'm also towards having a thicker trunk but don't know if all the folliage is staggering the growth lol

 

[Shibui]

Most Junipers thicken very slowly. Allowing some sacrifice branches to grow real long definitely speeds up the thickening but I still find it's a 6-10 year process.

When looking for the tree hidden within don't be distracted by everything that's currently there. Much of the current tree will disappear to reveal the bonsai.
I usually break the design into chunks to make it easier.
First check roots for best view of nebari.
2nd check just the trunk for best bends and trunk movement. Concentrate most on the lower parts which are thicker and harder to change. Upper trunk can be bent or regrown a a better shape. Remember to try other planting angles (wedges are helpful to prop the pot to one side or another or front to back. Keep turning the whole tree to look for better and worse trunk shapes.
3rd look at branches. Which are well placed on the trunk bends. Do some look better from one 'front' or from another viewing angle.
4th look for any features that you'd like to show people.
5th look for any faults you'd like to hide.
I find that most younger and nursery stock plants will not have much in the way of features and faults.
Finally, try to match the best views of all the above factors to find the best viewing angle. We rarely get everything aligning perfectly but a compromise between 2 or 3 best views might be the best option. Maybe removing one branch will give a much better view of the trunk? Try different combinations of roots/trunk/branches to find the best potential.
In most cases you'll find more than one good option and then decision paralysis sets in. What if I choose the wrong one? Even though there may be a few great options you can only make one of them. If all look equally good it doesn't matter which you choose. If necessary toss a coin to decide but make a decision and get on with developing that tree. Once you make a decision it automatically becomes the 'correct' option.

It is always hard to be sure of styling a tree from 2D photos but The first pic you posted above seems to have most potential.
There's lots I can't see in the photo like where each branch starts and which direction they grow in so always check the plant to see if any online proposal will actually work with the trunk and branches you really have.

Blue should show a nicely shaped trunk line.
Brown indicates proposed changed upper trunk line - either wired into position or grown from smaller side shoots.
Green indicates probable branches and upper crown. Need to check the tree to find where there are possible starters for the branches to be. You might like to have a couple more branches if there's space and they are available but generally less is more in bonsai. Just include sides and back down low and more all round near the top.

I'd also love to see a view of the trunk with this tree turned about 90deg anti clockwise from this current view though that could put the best branch toward the back so may not be a better option.

 

[Japonicus]

I'm still at a loss with this Juniper, exactly 1 year as passed

You’ve done a fantastic job so far.
So many begin by removing precious interior growth, but you’ve managed to
get this into a grow bag and allow development.
These procumbens have to, by genetics, “fall over backwards”.
I mean they’re a ground hugger and the main trunk to apex will grow over backwards
away from the front side you chose. So with wire and changing planting angle
you will have to overcome this characteristic in due time.


I like this trunk trait. It adds good character. Try to include it in the choice of your front
whatever rotation you decide on. 1st branch on right seems very low to ground and
turns upwards abruptly. Can you get a better pic of that branch and how it is growing.
In this pic the tree is already growing to reach for the ground to the right.
If the planting angle overcame this it would have the trunk emerging to the left a bit more.

How long has it been planted in this grow bag? Foliage is perfect stage for changling planting angle
if it has been a good while planted as is. Always get the juniper healthy as it currently is the year prior
to repotting. The amount of foliage will expedite and give more “insurance” to root recovery.
The foliage acts as solar panels collecting energy.
You do need to comb through and remove some under growth though.
This always gets you familiar with how each branch plays into the design to be.
Careful not to over bend branches while combing through with your fingers, eyes and scissors.

 

[binwow]

Most Junipers thicken very slowly. Allowing some sacrifice branches to grow real long definitely speeds up the thickening but I still find it's a 6-10 year process.

When looking for the tree hidden within don't be distracted by everything that's currently there. Much of the current tree will disappear to reveal the bonsai.
I usually break the design into chunks to make it easier.
First check roots for best view of nebari.
2nd check just the trunk for best bends and trunk movement. Concentrate most on the lower parts which are thicker and harder to change. Upper trunk can be bent or regrown a a better shape. Remember to try other planting angles (wedges are helpful to prop the pot to one side or another or front to back. Keep turning the whole tree to look for better and worse trunk shapes.
3rd look at branches. Which are well placed on the trunk bends. Do some look better from one 'front' or from another viewing angle.
4th look for any features that you'd like to show people.
5th look for any faults you'd like to hide.
I find that most younger and nursery stock plants will not have much in the way of features and faults.
Finally, try to match the best views of all the above factors to find the best viewing angle. We rarely get everything aligning perfectly but a compromise between 2 or 3 best views might be the best option. Maybe removing one branch will give a much better view of the trunk? Try different combinations of roots/trunk/branches to find the best potential.
In most cases you'll find more than one good option and then decision paralysis sets in. What if I choose the wrong one? Even though there may be a few great options you can only make one of them. If all look equally good it doesn't matter which you choose. If necessary toss a coin to decide but make a decision and get on with developing that tree. Once you make a decision it automatically becomes the 'correct' option.

It is always hard to be sure of styling a tree from 2D photos but The first pic you posted above seems to have most potential.
There's lots I can't see in the photo like where each branch starts and which direction they grow in so always check the plant to see if any online proposal will actually work with the trunk and branches you really have.
View attachment 542922
Blue should show a nicely shaped trunk line.
Brown indicates proposed changed upper trunk line - either wired into position or grown from smaller side shoots.
Green indicates probable branches and upper crown. Need to check the tree to find where there are possible starters for the branches to be. You might like to have a couple more branches if there's space and they are available but generally less is more in bonsai. Just include sides and back down low and more all round near the top.

I'd also love to see a view of the trunk with this tree turned about 90deg anti clockwise from this current view though that could put the best branch toward the back so may not be a better option.

The picture might not be the best, but I was holding the pot with one hand and trying to lift the front branch because it tends to grow downwards lol

 

[binwow]

You’ve done a fantastic job so far.
So many begin by removing precious interior growth, but you’ve managed to
get this into a grow bag and allow development.
These procumbens have to, by genetics, “fall over backwards”.
I mean they’re a ground hugger and the main trunk to apex will grow over backwards
away from the front side you chose. So with wire and changing planting angle
you will have to overcome this characteristic in due time.

View attachment 542931
I like this trunk trait. It adds good character. Try to include it in the choice of your front
whatever rotation you decide on. 1st branch on right seems very low to ground and
turns upwards abruptly. Can you get a better pic of that branch and how it is growing.
In this pic the tree is already growing to reach for the ground to the right.
If the planting angle overcame this it would have the trunk emerging to the left a bit more.

How long has it been planted in this grow bag? Foliage is perfect stage for changling planting angle
if it has been a good while planted as is. Always get the juniper healthy as it currently is the year prior
to repotting. The amount of foliage will expedite and give more “insurance” to root recovery.
The foliage acts as solar panels collecting energy.
You do need to comb through and remove some under growth though.
This always gets you familiar with how each branch plays into the design to be.
Careful not to over bend branches while combing through with your fingers, eyes and scissors.

I bought this Juniperus around July/August of 2022 and planted it on the grow bag with minimal root work at the end of summer 2022. It has been there ever since
Last year I did like you suggested and removed some inner growth and that made it grow quite vigorous I think but this year I would like to address the problem of it going always down because that was not the aim that I have for this tree.
So maybe I should change the planting angle this year and keep on the same pot? (remind you that this is a 3g grow bag and the tree has not reached its full potential, I can grab the tree and still feel that the roots have room to grow, like its wobbly)
This are some pictures of the inner branches that I don't know how to address:

 

[Japonicus]

Just a quick reply, I did not suggest removing interior growth. I commended you for preserving it
Yes while foliage is heaviest change planting angle if you can make use of the trunk character in your plans. If you style the tree once recovered in a 3D or 360 degree style it will be easier to change your mind later if necessary. Doubt it will be totally necessary though..

 

[binwow]

Just a quick reply, I did not suggest removing interior growth. I commended you for preserving it
Yes while foliage is heaviest change planting angle if you can make use of the trunk character in your plans. If you style the tree once recovered in a 3D or 360 degree style it will be easier to change your mind later if necessary. Doubt it will be totally necessary though..

I actually went on the removing interior growth approach after seeing some Bonsai-En Juniper videos, but I guess that procedure should be done in the refinement stage

 

[Bonsai Forest]

I'm still at a loss with this Juniper, exactly 1 year as passed and I still don't know how to approach this Juniper! It's the only tree species that I have some troubles with lol I'm leaning towards the front on the first picture but where should I go from there? Also do you guys also think the front should be pic 1?

Whichever branch you have angled upward, use that as the new leader and twist it around to swirl upward as an informal upright.

Use my most recent material as examples or inspiration:





While you’re not creating a final design, you are creating an initial structure and trunk line of the tree from which to utilize in/as/for a future final design. Other branches will grow and thicken over time, but creating the main trunk line from which those branches will grow can and should be done now. Choose which branch would best bend and create to a more upward/twisting/swirling main line leading upward to an eventual apex.

If a branch grows left or right off of the slanting/bent over main trunk line (currently hunched over as typical for ground cover juniper), then remove the other branches and leave only that branch so that you can twist or trun it and angle it upward so that the trunk goes

Doing this will catapult your ground cover juniper into a suddenly upright or informal upright or slanting or literati or whatever and instantly open more future options for structure.

 

[Bonsai Forest]

Templates for visualizing the potential in the average run-of-the-mill bent over ground cover juniper procumbens (or any other juniper)

Find the most creative way to go from horizontal to slanting or vertical. Choose the thickest but also most pliable and able to bend heavy with wire and not break in half.

***If it breaks, use pliers to squeeze a half circle of thick wire around/over the break like a splint so the fibers reconnect over time

 

[Japonicus]

I actually went on the removing interior growth approach after seeing some Bonsai-En Juniper videos, but I guess that procedure should be done in the refinement stage

Until you have a design in mind preserve interior growth. Then it’s all about selection.
You watching Bjorn is like me watching Dale Earnhardt racing then going to the track
in my car without years of experience. Bjorn is an accomplished artist who can blindfolded
pick out a nursery juniper then unveil and go right to a best design, often something we
woul have never thought possible and in little time at that.

I would suggest to lift from the grow bag, tilt the trunk into a good position exiting the soil at an angle
allowing the movement to evenly move back into the opposite direction ( < this less than symbol is exaggerated but is evenly moving in both directions ), then trim the roots flat while holding the trunk in the desired position.
Then, if you need to remove more roots, keep the new plane of the bottom of the roots throughout your removal.
Then replace in your grow bag.
My input is based on my experience and using bonsai soil. Missing an opportunity to begin the transition
to bonsai is a missed opportunity and a set back in time. I do not recall your substrate make up.

 

[binwow]

View attachment 543267
View attachment 543268

Templates for visualizing the potential in the average run-of-the-mill bent over ground cover juniper procumbens (or any other juniper)

Find the most creative way to go from horizontal to slanting or vertical. Choose the thickest but also most pliable and able to bend heavy with wire and not break in half.

***If it breaks, use pliers to squeeze a half circle of thick wire around/over the break like a splint so the fibers reconnect over time

I've actually thought many times about doing this to the branch but it is already really thick so I was affraid to snap it and also wanted to wait some time after the repot before doing any wiring. I think it's growing vigorous so it's time to do something to it (I'll give it a try this weekend and post progress) and I don't mind waiting 5 or 10 years on the grow bag. If I could it would be already on the ground..

I didn't understand what you meant by "***If it breaks, use pliers to squeeze a half circle of thick wire around/over the break like a splint so the fibers reconnect over time " could you please share a video or a link if you don't mind?