Thoughts on maintaining redwood burls?

[LittleDingus]

This will be an unusual question for a bonsai forum because, to my knowledge, burls are NOT encouraged in bonsai culture. While burls can be considered "tree cancer" and are not a good sign on many species, they are pretty common on coastal redwoods (sequoia sempervirens) where they aren't so much a disease as a survival strategy It' one of the features I love about coastal redwoods both from a horticulture perspective and as a woodworker.

I am incredibly excited that two of my coast redwoods have burls!

Here's one growing from...and is the cause of...a mass of branches:



and this tree is growing one from its base...the more typical location for redwood burls:



I very much want to keep these features as these trees grow! What are people's thoughts on how to get these burls to continue to grow...hopefully without taking over the entire tree?!?

I've done some research...and will continue to do more...but it's a hard thing find the right kind of information on! Not a lot of research out there in trying to grow and maintain burls! Burl for woodworking commands a premium to the point where "burl poaching" is a big problem in some areas

Crimes Against Nature: Poaching Takes its Toll on the North Coast

They come at night, under the cover of darkness, traversing the back roads of Redwood National and State Parks, home to much of what remains...

www.northcoastjournal.com

But apparently there's not enough money in it to spawn research on how to grow/manage burls.

Any thoughts/experience people have with growing burls be it good, bad or in between would be greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance!

 

[Shibui]

There does not seem to be much agreement on what causes burls but I saw some research that showed burls are the result of infection and they can be initiated by innoculating a tree with some tissue from a live burl from another tree.
I would expect that once your redwood burls have started they should continue to develop with the tree.
Bonsai is about aesthetics so the real question is not how to but should we grow things like burls just be cause they are natural. We don't grow trees with ugly shapes even though some do grow like that naturally. We strive to emulate just the better looking growth habits and shapes of the trees we keep as bonsai.
Even though huge burls are a part of the forest systems I'm not sure I really want them on my trees.

 

[bzstudent]

Most experts I follow use the word stress to describe the cause of burls. They also insisted that they may or may not affect the tree's health, depending upon the cause of the stress. Redwood burls often do not have a detrimental effect on the tree. In fact, I once grew a healthy redwood ring from a sustainably harvested burl slice.

What is a Burl? Description, Causes & What To Do | Organic Plant Care LLC | Organic Lawn & Plant Health Service in Hunterdon, Morris, Somerset & Union Counties, NJ and Bucks County, PA

What a burl is, what it’s made out of, how it’s formed, which trees are more likely to grow burls & what you should (and shouldn’t!) do if you find a burl.

organicplantcarellc.com

 

[Pixar]

Wish my tree had a ball bag like that

 

[erich_raudebaugh]

I only have one collected redwood, but it's essentially a single burl. You can't keep them from producing buds, just trim the ones you don't want.

I have an idea, which I'm using on some of my trees, which is that if you have an active burl site that you want to remain, just leave a single shoot each year. You can always cut it off later. I'm trying this with my redwood and crabapple, and a plum, it seems to work. The idea is to add character to the trunk. Just an experiment though.

 

[Emanon]

I was hoping to maybe revive or "bump" this thread and get some advice from much more knowledgable people on how to maintain burls. How do you treat a burl if you like the burl as is and, more than anything, just want to preserve its unique character?

In my case, I also want to help the tree to continue establishing roots. Do I let the suckers/shoots just keep growing? Do I let them lignify? If so, when do I cut them and how? (Flush with the trunk?) Will this destroy the overall aesthetic of the burl? Will allowing the shoots to grow help prevent the base from decaying?

I included some photographs of my tree. One unique thing on this tree that I was hoping to maybe maintain or nurture on the burl is that there are what I believe were once roots that are now sprouting. You can see an example of this in the third and fourth pics. How will this look years from now if I allow the shoots to grow here unimpeded?

 

[19Mateo83]

I was hoping to maybe revive or "bump" this thread and get some advice from much more knowledgable people on how to maintain burls. How do you treat a burl if you like the burl as is and, more than anything, just want to preserve its unique character?

In my case, I also want to help the tree to continue establishing roots. Do I let the suckers/shoots just keep growing? Do I let them lignify? If so, when do I cut them and how? (Flush with the trunk?) Will this destroy the overall aesthetic of the burl? Will allowing the shoots to grow help prevent the base from decaying?

I included some photographs of my tree. One unique thing on this tree that I was hoping to maybe maintain or nurture on the burl is that there are what I believe were once roots that are now sprouting. You can see an example of this in the third and fourth pics. How will this look years from now if I allow the shoots to grow here unimpeded?

That is a pretty sweet tree!

 

[Crawforde]

I was hoping to maybe revive or "bump" this thread and get some advice from much more knowledgable people on how to maintain burls. How do you treat a burl if you like the burl as is and, more than anything, just want to preserve its unique character?

In my case, I also want to help the tree to continue establishing roots. Do I let the suckers/shoots just keep growing? Do I let them lignify? If so, when do I cut them and how? (Flush with the trunk?) Will this destroy the overall aesthetic of the burl? Will allowing the shoots to grow help prevent the base from decaying?

I included some photographs of my tree. One unique thing on this tree that I was hoping to maybe maintain or nurture on the burl is that there are what I believe were once roots that are now sprouting. You can see an example of this in the third and fourth pics. How will this look years from now if I allow the shoots to grow here unimpeded?

That is really nice.
I would move cautiously because it is already so big and has a very interesting shape.
mid it were mine I would let some shoots develop on top and at the periphery in order to keep the sap flowing and keep the biology active across the burl, but then prune them back before they lignified to minimize swelling and scarring. But, I don’t know if that is correct or not.
I do like the looks of yours!

 

[Emanon]

That is really nice.
I would move cautiously because it is already so big and has a very interesting shape.
mid it were mine I would let some shoots develop on top and at the periphery in order to keep the sap flowing and keep the biology active across the burl, but then prune them back before they lignified to minimize swelling and scarring. But, I don’t know if that is correct or not.
I do like the looks of yours!

Thank you! I like it too . The pictures I took don't really do a good job of capturing the tree in person. To me it's interesting all the around (360 degrees). I do plan on moving cautiously, as you suggested, and I had the same thoughts re letting it grow all over/across to keep the entirety of the burl "alive". I was thinking I might let a shoot grow up into a second smaller trunk from the other elevated part of the burl (seen best on the right in the last picture in my earlier post). There's also a piece that comes up separate from the visible burl that looks like a knee (I know it's not a knee obviously). I'm hoping it sprouts there and then I can do the same thing of letting the shoots grow every year and then cut to keep it alive. If that strategy works as the best way to maintain a burl?

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Very very nice tree . Being from the north east I’m more than a little curious. Where do all these collected redwoods you see . Come from I thought they were protected . In almost all there natural range .As for your burl . I can. Understand keeping the burl alive . To establish roots But in the future you may want consider using it as a deadwood feature . After all there prized by wood carvers for a reason . But it’s a amazing tree congrats

 

[LittleDingus]

Very very nice tree . Being from the north east I’m more than a little curious. Where do all these collected redwoods you see . Come from I thought they were protected . In almost all there natural range .As for your burl . I can. Understand keeping the burl alive . To establish roots But in the future you may want consider using it as a deadwood feature . After all there prized by wood carvers for a reason . But it’s a amazing tree congrats

As a woodworker, burl is prized for its internal grain structure. The outside of a burl is of limited interest in woodworking. Often it looks like any other dead wood from the outside.

I don't suspect there is much of an issue keeping a burl alive. They are basically a runaway cancerous growth. In redwoods, they are filled with tons of live buds. Keep the bark intact and they should live.

The intent of the original question was how to encourage them to grow without taking over the tree. @Emanon's question is a bit the opposite...how do you keep a burl as it is without taking over the tree. Both are management questions.

The burls on my trees did not change much over the past year...but those trees did not show great growth over the past year either.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Sorry I did not mean to interrupt . The original. Question

 

[LittleDingus]

Sorry I did not mean to interrupt . The original. Question

Interrupt away! That's often where the interesting bits lay

I wasn't trying to criticize or sound annoyed or whatever...just adding my views...

Personally, I don't think it is overly hard to keep a burl alive...the issue, as I see it, is controlling growth...if such is even possible.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Thanks just did not want to step on toes . As for the burl there seems to be very little we do know about them . One would think there value . Would have created interest in artificial creation of them . There might be some research. The more you know. Yada yada . As a possible survival mechanism in the tree . Normally bonsai practice may . Create excess growth put I have no idea

 

[Emanon]

I had two more maintenance-related questions but that have to do specifically with preserving burls.

1. Why wood hardener and not spar varnish?

I am very naive when it comes to such things and thus hesitant to ask this question in a forum that has so many esteemed wood experts such as @ABCarve but... whenever I am finishing wood that will be outside and in the water, such as a kayak, I always treat it in the same way and I never think to use wood hardener. My bias I think comes from the fact that the products I use are marketed for the specific purpose I'm using them... So on crafts meant for water, I use "marine" or spar varnish with "UV stabilizers". Same with outdoor furniture. Specifically I always use the same two products: I first apply multiple coats of a penetrating oil (General Finishes Outdoor Oil) and then I finish with multiple coats of Epifanes Wood Finish Matte. The wood always lasts for years and years in the hot sun and water.

You can see an example of the benches I use for my trees. It is just a redwood beam that I treated as above. They have been outside in the elements for at least 6 years and they look the exact same as they did when I first finished them. (See pics below and this is without me wiping them down to remove dust or dirt.) I really like the colors the two finishes brought out in the redwood (which is obviously Coast Redwood) and I'm wondering specifically why a burl or deadwood more generally on a redwood can't be treated the same way. The redwood beams they sell at lumber yards are deadwood aren't they? I mean nothing will ever grow from them again... In full transparency I also ask because I have both cans of the Outdoor Oil and the Epifanes open and the seal on my wood hardener hasn't been cracked yet and I'm hesitant to do so considering the very small amount I would need for my tree.

2. Alternative to lime sulfur?

I know lime sulphur shouldn't be used on redwood because it would look ridiculous, short of a wood tint being added. I'm hesitant to start mixing lime sulphur and dyes for fear of getting the mix wrong. I noticed on my wood hardener box, where they are trying to sell other products, they have a Step 1 that precedes the wood hardener stage where they suggest using something called "Borate Powder" to kill active rot fungus (the same function lime sulfur performs). Is this a thing? Has anyone used something similar instead of lime sulfur? Would it end up bleaching the deadwood too?

 

[nuttiest]

Emanon - where is the deadwood, I don't even see any.
If you let all the sprouts grow, you will have cousin it at the end of summer. If you don't, you risk precious energy building for the year, and this is a new burl doing great by the looks of it. It will be a great balancing act. Decide whether you want forest style or sumo- like looks now, or you won't be able to choose what comes off. I would look into training cypress knees for more info.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

The essence of deadwood is like all things bonsai . To make it look natural as in a tree damaged in nature or old tree that a section has succumbed and died while the rest struggles to live on . So your trying to artistically recreate or improve a natural element . Line S is used as a preservative and to create the bleached white in the sun look . Multiple people have used dye and or paint to get a different effect or colour . Can’t speak for others but I have used 2 part epoxy more as a wood strengthening for silicate dead wood as has others . Some use it and other products to seal large wounds on trees to help wounds heal over faster . Not sure what you plan on accomplishing with spar varnish it will seal the wood but you want a natural look not a furniture like finish . What ever you try I highly recommend you get some spare scrap dead wood from same species and experiment on that

 

[Emanon]

If you let all the sprouts grow, you will have cousin it at the end of summer.

Haha, yeah, it has already turned into Cousin It! That's a perfect description... I decided to just let everything grow, with minimal pruning, to further establish its roots.

Emanon - where is the deadwood, I don't even see any. [...] I would look into training cypress knees for more info.

I posted a few pics of some of the deadwood I was hoping to preserve. Because I'm keeping it so wet, there's regular flaking off (discoloration/rotting) near where the burl touches the sand. You can see this especially in the picture of the "knee" (the last picture) -- behind the "knee", where the actual tree starts.

 

[rockm]

Do you know Bob Shimon of Mendocino Coast Bonsai? He's pretty much the go-to on redwood bonsai.

March 2020: Bob Shimon’s Redwood Demonstration

In March of 2020, with pandemic-related uncertainty at its highest and information at its lowest, the Marin Bonsai Club had what would be its last meeting before the official stay-at-home order. Ou…

marinbonsai.org

"He also pointed out that in most cases lime sulphur is not needed for redwoods, because they resist rot. Use it if you please, but the whitening it causes is also not natural-looking on redwoods. If you insist on using lime sulphur, consider coloring it to tone down the bright white."

Personally I don't really understand why you're hesitant to use LS. It can be easily dyed with all kind of things, from soot, to india ink and yes, wood stain tint, to dampen the stark white. FWIW, LS is NOT THE SAME as wood hardener. LS is NOT a wood preservative as much as it is a bleaching agent that kills bacteria. Wood hardeners are disappointing and sometimes idiotic looking on bonsai. They tend to dry to a plastic-like looking finish, and/or enhance rotting as it traps moisture behind it in the wood.

Common sense dictates that ANY deadwood not be in contact with the soil. Rot can't be prevented in that situation

 

[Emanon]

Personally I don't really understand why you're hesitant to use LS. It can be easily dyed with all kind of things, from soot, to india ink and yes, wood stain tint, to dampen the stark white. FWIW, LS is NOT THE SAME as wood hardener. LS is NOT a wood preservative as much as it is a bleaching agent that kills bacteria. Wood hardeners are disappointing and sometimes idiotic looking on bonsai. They tend to dry to a plastic-like looking finish, and/or enhance rotting as it traps moisture behind it in the wood.

Thanks for the reply and the link. I think I might just go ahead with the lime sulfur then... but maybe start by finding a similar piece of spare redwood burl and mess around with the coloring/dying of it first (as @Frozentreehugger helpfully suggested). Have you heard of anyone using a borate powder product (sold as a wood preservative) as a fungicide instead of lime sulfur though? I know borax, added to laundry, helps whiten whites (but not bleach colors?)...

The plasticky effect of a wood hardener is why I was learning towards using an outdoor penetrating oil with "UV stabilizers" and "mildew prohibitors" followed by the matte marine spar varnish. I'm used to using this, it helps wood I've treated last for years unchanged, and it never leaves it with that plastic look. But, as frozentreehugger pointed out, living trees in pots are not furniture or kayaks...