Yardadori juniper ID and collection tips

[Rodrigo]

I posted a video of the multiple junipers along my front yard in a yamadori thread and I finally picked out which one I'm digging up.

Can anyone identity the type of juniper it might be?

As of now my plan is to dig it up in the spring as buds swell and building a grow box depending on the root ball size, as small as possible while fitting the roots. I know ideally we'd want the tree to be in a small shallow soil deposit as to not have long running roots but obviously here that's not the case. I've been fertilizing it every now and then over the spring and summer to try to get it strong before collection but it's been extremely hot and dry all summer here. It does have good strong growing tips though.

Any tips on collecting? My main questions are:

1. How big should I keep the root ball?
2. Should I do any trenching before then so it has some time to grow roots closer to the trunk?
3. Should I keep the root ball full of yard soil when it goes into the grow box with Pumice?



As you can see it has a lot of dead wood. In fact, all of the foliage comes from trunk that extends way out and the u-turns back over the trunk, and has multiple branches coming off of it (you can see the u-turns in the second to last Pic). The rest of the trunks/branches are all deadwood

 

[Rodrigo]

Bump because this got buried. Any ideas?

 

[nuttiest]

Think real hard on where to put this because you probably don't want all this disease in your bonsai area until it is cleaned up of the black mold. Could you have a large container or box where it is for a year?
I would dig 1 1/2' foot away from base and start digging a water trench, get the soil about 4" down and water the trench. You can tell a lot once you start watering soil off the roots in trench, what you can get away with. How much does it rock, if any?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Black mold is usually not an issue. Juniper wood hardly rots and usually it's not an infectuous disease, with rust being the exclusion.

The variety looks like a tight pfitzer/media that has been growing for a while. If these get old, and plenty of sun, the foliage tends to tighten. Once there's plenty of water, it tends to get more stringy.

When I collect trees I keep the native soil and mix the outer edges with bonsai soil so there's a transition layer. This helps the roots escape that garden soil. If the plant responds well, then consider doing a half bare root the next year or the year after that.

 

[Shibui]

Looks like some sort of J. chinensis. There are lots of cultivars and some are used extensively for garden shrubs and trees but there's also lots of other similar looking junipers used in gardens. The foliage looks nice and compact so it should be a good variety for bonsai. Whether this particular tree will be good bonsai is something else entirely.

I hope you realize just what you are in for with that tree. In my experience the digging and transplant is way more work than anticipated. It is likely to have thick roots growing down so you will need to open up a hole about twice what you hoped to get under and cut those down roots.
It will weigh way more than you think. The wood is heavy. Foliage is heavy, any soil will be heavy.
I generally let most of the garden soil fall off the roots. Garden soil can be a killer in pots so I'd rather go right to potting soil. They seem to survive just as well either way but watering is definitely easier without garden soil in the pot.
The root spread will almost certainly be much bigger than you guessed too. I usually have a couple of larger containers on hand or materials to build a box after I have seen the real extent of the roots and trunk size.
Can't anticipate size of root ball until you see what's down there. Some have good, compact roots, others run a long way.

There should be a little healing and root growing time left for you in Texas so trenching might be worth while. Just don't make the mistake of going too far out. No point growing new roots then having to cut them all off because the roots won't fit in the box after you dig it out. Smaller is better in this case. I usually work on roots being around same length as trunk thickness if possible.

 

[PonderingSage:]

This looks like it could be a killer tree! It will be big though.
I haven’t collected junipers from the landscape, just the wild so take this with a grain of salt.
Now is a good time to collect as the tree will start pushing energy into fall root production.
I would trench as mentioned above cutting large roots but trying to chase out and keep feeder roots.
I would knock off any heavy soil, but keep some of the soil core to remove in a later repot. Make it managable to fit in a wood box. Anchor it onto a vertical post so that the tree is rock solid. Fill with pumice.
I wouldn't remove much of the foliage as this will make the tree stronger.
Mist regularly or spray the foliage with a hose, but also cover the soil surface, so it doesn’t get too wet.
Good luck!
I attached photos of tres l have with vertical posts and covered soil surfaces

 

[Rodrigo]

Black mold is usually not an issue. Juniper wood hardly rots and usually it's not an infectuous disease, with rust being the exclusion.

The variety looks like a tight pfitzer/media that has been growing for a while. If these get old, and plenty of sun, the foliage tends to tighten. Once there's plenty of water, it tends to get more stringy.

When I collect trees I keep the native soil and mix the outer edges with bonsai soil so there's a transition layer. This helps the roots escape that garden soil. If the plant responds well, then consider doing a half bare root the next year or the year after that.

Thanks for the reply!
They definitely get plenty of sun, pretty much all day into late evening when the house blocks the sun. As far as water, we had a super rainy spring this year and then a record breaking summer with literally 0 rain.

I plan on using pumice instead of bonsai soil but I'll be sure to leave native soil and expose the outer layer

 

[Rodrigo]

Looks like some sort of J. chinensis. There are lots of cultivars and some are used extensively for garden shrubs and trees but there's also lots of other similar looking junipers used in gardens. The foliage looks nice and compact so it should be a good variety for bonsai. Whether this particular tree will be good bonsai is something else entirely.

I hope you realize just what you are in for with that tree. In my experience the digging and transplant is way more work than anticipated. It is likely to have thick roots growing down so you will need to open up a hole about twice what you hoped to get under and cut those down roots.
It will weigh way more than you think. The wood is heavy. Foliage is heavy, any soil will be heavy.
I generally let most of the garden soil fall off the roots. Garden soil can be a killer in pots so I'd rather go right to potting soil. They seem to survive just as well either way but watering is definitely easier without garden soil in the pot.
The root spread will almost certainly be much bigger than you guessed too. I usually have a couple of larger containers on hand or materials to build a box after I have seen the real extent of the roots and trunk size.
Can't anticipate size of root ball until you see what's down there. Some have good, compact roots, others run a long way.

There should be a little healing and root growing time left for you in Texas so trenching might be worth while. Just don't make the mistake of going too far out. No point growing new roots then having to cut them all off because the roots won't fit in the box after you dig it out. Smaller is better in this case. I usually work on roots being around same length as trunk thickness if possible.

Thanks for the ID!

Whether this particular tree will be good bonsai is something else entirely.

Is that mainly because of the possibly huge root ball I'll have to collect or something else?

I do recognize that it'll be hard work and very heavy, luckily it's right in the front yard by the driveway so I can put it on a cart and take it to the back yard for potting, and once it's in it's spot it's not moving for a while. I'm hoping that by it being in between the sidewalk and the street, that the roots didn't spread too far outwards, and can collect a decent root ball. but I know that means the roots probably went down like you said. I'll probably dig around a little bit when I can to see if I can get an idea of the roots and then I'll go ahead and trench it. Here in Texas our fall doesn't really start until late October or early November so it does have some time to regrow roots. Should I make the trench just going downwards around the roots or should I undercut as well to try and get roots below and not just laterally?

As for the box, you're right on not knowing the size of box I'll need until it's out. I actually don't have containers that big anyways so I'll have wood ready to cut into the right size when it's out.

Thanks @Shibui!

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Great looking potential on this tree. Hope it survives whatever you do to it.

My advice is make sure it is secure and make sure you have all the material you need ahead of collection.

 

[Rodrigo]

This looks like it could be a killer tree! It will be big though.
I haven’t collected junipers from the landscape, just the wild so take this with a grain of salt.
Now is a good time to collect as the tree will start pushing energy into fall root production.
I would trench as mentioned above cutting large roots but trying to chase out and keep feeder roots.
I would knock off any heavy soil, but keep some of the soil core to remove in a later repot. Make it managable to fit in a wood box. Anchor it onto a vertical post so that the tree is rock solid. Fill with pumice.
I wouldn't remove much of the foliage as this will make the tree stronger.
Mist regularly or spray the foliage with a hose, but also cover the soil surface, so it doesn’t get too wet.
Good luck!
I attached photos of tres l have with vertical posts and covered soil surfaces

Thank you! I thought so too, I think it's the right combination of deadwood and size because there's like 10 more in the jard but they're all bigger than this one lol.

Perfect, good to see that what I had in mind will work. I wasn't planning on removing any foliage, just cutting off the dead twigs and branches to make it lighter, but obviously not too much so I have some nice deadwood. I'll probably have to do some carving on the deadwood trunks because there a couple of nice jins that were chopped off with a chainsaw before so I'll need to make it look natural, but I know it has to recover before I touch it.

Those are some sweet trees you got there! Do you have a thread for them I can follow?

 

[Shibui]

Is that mainly because of the possibly huge root ball I'll have to collect or something else?

Not so much the root ball, more about the foliage being way out at the end of a long, twisty trunk and how to deal with all that dead wood. I guess having the trunk come back over the base will help make a more compact tree.
The work to get it out is only the start. Remember it will need repotting every few years. I hope you have some sort of lifter or some strong and patient mates. You ever plan to take it to a workshop for help? To a show? Any idea how much a bonsai pot that size will set you back? All these and more need to be considered when deciding if a particular tree will be good for bonsai.

I do recognize that it'll be hard work and very heavy, luckily it's right in the front yard by the driveway so I can put it on a cart and take it to the back yard for potting, and once it's in it's spot it's not moving for a while. I'm hoping that by it being in between the sidewalk and the street, that the roots didn't spread too far outwards, and can collect a decent root ball. but I know that means the roots probably went down like you said. I'll probably dig around a little bit when I can to see if I can get an idea of the roots and then I'll go ahead and trench it. Here in Texas our fall doesn't really start until late October or early November so it does have some time to regrow roots. Should I make the trench just going downwards around the roots or should I undercut as well to try and get roots below and not just laterally?

How far to cut when trenching depends what you find. The concept is to leave plenty of roots intact to keep it alive while the roots you have cut regenerate new feeder roots. Then when transplant time comes the new feeders on the trenched roots take over when the remaining roots are chopped. Normally we would just cut the lateral roots and leave the roots underneath intact for the first stage.
Fingers crossed it has been reasonably well watered so the roots have not had to go a long way searching for water and nutrients.

Try to remember to take photos at each stage to share the journey with the rest of us.

 

[PonderingSage:]

Thank you! I thought so too, I think it's the right combination of deadwood and size because there's like 10 more in the jard but they're all bigger than this one lol.

Perfect, good to see that what I had in mind will work. I wasn't planning on removing any foliage, just cutting off the dead twigs and branches to make it lighter, but obviously not too much so I have some nice deadwood. I'll probably have to do some carving on the deadwood trunks because there a couple of nice jins that were chopped off with a chainsaw before so I'll need to make it look natural, but I know it has to recover before I touch it.

Those are some sweet trees you got there! Do you have a thread for them I can follow?

Maybe once they pull through next spring. They were collected this past May

 

[snowman04]

Thank you! I thought so too, I think it's the right combination of deadwood and size because there's like 10 more in the jard but they're all bigger than this one lol.

Perfect, good to see that what I had in mind will work. I wasn't planning on removing any foliage, just cutting off the dead twigs and branches to make it lighter, but obviously not too much so I have some nice deadwood. I'll probably have to do some carving on the deadwood trunks because there a couple of nice jins that were chopped off with a chainsaw before so I'll need to make it look natural, but I know it has to recover before I touch it.

Those are some sweet trees you got there! Do you have a thread for them I can follow?

I think I need to come visit you with the Yamadori moving van...

 

[Rodrigo]

Not so much the root ball, more about the foliage being way out at the end of a long, twisty trunk and how to deal with all that dead wood. I guess having the trunk come back over the base will help make a more compact tree.
The work to get it out is only the start. Remember it will need repotting every few years. I hope you have some sort of lifter or some strong and patient mates. You ever plan to take it to a workshop for help? To a show? Any idea how much a bonsai pot that size will set you back? All these and more need to be considered when deciding if a particular tree will be good for bonsai.

Gotcha! Yeah the deadwood might be a little difficult to deal with, but I plan on cleaning up mainly just the small twigs and leaving the big deadwood pieces for jins. I think the mess of deadwood you see in the pics are mostly twigs so once those are gone it'll be more manageable. I do plan on having my ex-mentor from before I moved away from Dallas to help me with it when she visits other clients in the area.

You do bring up a good point on how big the pot will have to be, and the cost. However I think I'm at least a few years away from putting it in a pot so I have time to find the right one for the right price.

How far to cut when trenching depends what you find. The concept is to leave plenty of roots intact to keep it alive while the roots you have cut regenerate new feeder roots. Then when transplant time comes the new feeders on the trenched roots take over when the remaining roots are chopped. Normally we would just cut the lateral roots and leave the roots underneath intact for the first stage.
Fingers crossed it has been reasonably well watered so the roots have not had to go a long way searching for water and nutrients.

I'll probably dig around a little this weekend to see what I'm working with and depending on that I'll see what the next steps I can take are.

I'll definitely be taking pics and updating this thread as I do!

 

[IllinoisSam]

Here is some advice from PaulH from Omono on juniper yamadori care:

Here's my proven method for juniper aftercare. I've been collecting for over 25 years and now I get close to 100% survival.

1. Don't obsess over getting a lot of roots. Feeder roots are good but thicker structure roots can go.
2. Wash field soil off the roots with a hose nozzle and remove any dead roots
3. Pot in the smallest pot or box in which it will fit. If the container is too big it will retain moisture and rot the roots.
4. Plant in 100% pumice sifted to larger than 1/4" size. Absolutely no organic or fine soil.
5. Keep the tree in a cool greenhouse or equivalent with filtered sun.
6. Mist the foliage a minimum of every 4 hours. If you can't manage it yourself set up a timed misting system.
7. Cover the soil surface with something to keep misting water out. You want the soil (pumice) slightly moist but never wet.
8. When new growth begins gradually move the tree to full sun. New growth means actual elongating shoots.

I've tried other methods and killed a lot of junipers before learning this.

Good luck. I hope this one survives but I think the odds are against it unless you start over with it.

 

[BonjourBonsai]

I collected a yard juniper 3 years ago in November. It is about 1/2 the size of that awesome looking tree you've got there. A few things I wish I did differently (which a lot of folks already covered):
Before you start digging:
1. Prepare the container or pot you will put it in. It can be a simple wooden grow box.
2. Whatever soil you decide to use, prepare enough and have it on hand
3. Make sure the grow box or pot is sturdy enough to tie the root ball down securely so there is no wiggle. Have wire and tools on hand to do that.
4. Have a plastic tarp next to the dig site to put soil on as you dig. You can also rest the tree there one you get it out and mix some of the original soil into your if that's something you want to do.
5. Pick a cloudy day to do it so the roots and tree don't dry out quickly. Also wet the roots as you go.
6. Prepare the spot you want the potted tree to live in and consider putting it on a moving dolly or some sort of wagon in case your first choice isn't right.
7. Have your beverage of choice ready.
Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[BonjourBonsai]

Here's my thread:

Juniper Score!

Saw a neighbor digging up his yard and asked if he was saving the juniper on the edge of the construction zone. He said no and he preferred small trees like Japanese maples. Ding ding ding! I bought a blood good JM last fall for nothing at a close out sale. It was not a good bonsai investment...

www.bonsainut.com