Why wouldn’t it be possible to grow full sun trees in a grow tent with a very powerful setup?

[electraus]

Now, before I get crucified, I want to make it clear that I am NOT doing this. I’m simply curious after reading about the practice of growing cannabis plants in grow tents. Given a scenario where you have the financial resources to run an extremely bright artificial light setup (I’m talking intensity almost equivalent to direct sun with a PPFD value of 2000+) for a full 12-14 hour day, and you keep the grow tent in an unheated, uncooled room like a garage, would this still yield unhealthy trees? I’m really curious to know why it would because I can’t seem to think of anything

 

[Japonicus]

Sure.
Are you talking about tropicals or cold hardy trees?
There's unprecedented value in fresh natural air and natural rain,
and the ebb and flow of shifting temperatures with increasing and decreasing light value.
Unheated and uncooled is out of category for...

a scenario where you have the financial resources

...and full spectrum high value lighting is not everything, but with proper setup
which I have never done, it definitely is possible even for outdoor plants.
Ever watch Growing Belushi series? Jim ruined an entire years worth of crop with mold
done on a professional scale, with high end craft cannabis dispensaries dropping him
due to lack of consistency. He built back better and I wish a new season would come out.
He's hilarious!

 

[sorce]

Footcandles.

Sorce

 

[Paradox]

The only person that has ever done it is Jack Wikle and he grew junipers, boxwood and cotoneaster inside in his basement under lights.
I dont know the details of his set ups but they had to have been fairly extensive to provide the amount of light necessary.
The other problem is winter. You need to provide them a few months with temperatures below 40 degrees F for dormancy or they will eventually die.
I am not sure how Jack accomplished that or if the species he was using have lesser requirements for dormancy. I believe all the ones mentioned do grow further south than where he is located (Michigan) where winters are milder. Im not sure Id want to chance the power bill these days with those kinds of set ups

 

[BrianBay9]

I've done it with tropicals. It's not that hard. But as others have mentioned, trees that need a winter are a different story.

 

[Paradox]

Yea I have also keep tropicals (Ficus and Brazilian Rain tree) inside for over 18 months with no issues when I wasnt able to get them outside that summer

 

[Glaucus]

If you can create the conditions required by the species, indeed there is no reason why you cannot grow them. This is how they are able to create artificial rain forest parks at northern latitudes.

Besides light, and you only need 600 to 1000 PPFD, especially if you run 14 hours, there is humidity, ventilation and pest control. Then, seasonality.

 

[Mikecheck123]

The daily temperature fluctuations are also very important for temperate species, e.g., Japanese maples. That's really hard or impossible to pull off indoors.

 

[Eckhoffw]

My question is why?
Why not put ‘em outside and let the natural weather cycle take care of them?
What’s the why not?

 

[Lorax7]

The only person that has ever done it is Jack Wikle and he grew junipers, boxwood and cotoneaster inside in his basement under lights.
I dont know the details of his set ups but they had to have been fairly extensive to provide the amount of light necessary.
The other problem is winter. You need to provide them a few months with temperatures below 40 degrees F for dormancy or they will eventually die.
I am not sure how Jack accomplished that or if the species he was using have lesser requirements for dormancy. I believe all the ones mentioned do grow further south than where he is located (Michigan) where winters are milder. Im not sure Id want to chance the power bill these days with those kinds of set ups

Jack wrote an article describing how he grew bonsai indoors: LINK

 

[leatherback]

Of course, with the right resources and budget it is possible. One can grow a full on rainforest indoors. Like this one, which they build some 40 years ago

 

[electraus]

Sure.
Are you talking about tropicals or cold hardy trees?
There's unprecedented value in fresh natural air and natural rain,
and the ebb and flow of shifting temperatures with increasing and decreasing light value.
Unheated and uncooled is out of category for...

...and full spectrum high value lighting is not everything, but with proper setup
which I have never done, it definitely is possible even for outdoor plants.
Ever watch Growing Belushi series? Jim ruined an entire years worth of crop with mold
done on a professional scale, with high end craft cannabis dispensaries dropping him
due to lack of consistency. He built back better and I wish a new season would come out.
He's hilarious!

Yeah, I meant temperate species. I know tropicals would easily grow and thrive with a setup like the one I described; unless your winters get really cold, then a space heater would probably be required in the grow tent if it's in your garage. Do you think the value that the natural air brings be simulated by using a ventilation system that enables consistent oxygen and CO2 exchange?

 

[electraus]

If you can create the conditions required by the species, indeed there is no reason why you cannot grow them. This is how they are able to create artificial rain forest parks at northern latitudes.

Besides light, and you only need 600 to 1000 PPFD, especially if you run 14 hours, there is humidity, ventilation and pest control. Then, seasonality.

Are plants more prone to pests when grown in a grow tent? That seems counterintuitive (because it's an enclosed environment) and like it makes total sense (because it's a very crowded enclosed environment) at the same time

If put in an unheated and uncooled garage, wouldn't that control for seasonal shifts?

 

[Paradox]

Fungus could be a potential problem in a humidity tent for sure and you would need to ensure the trees are pest free when brought inside.

I've had scale population increases after bringing in my tropicals and there are no more predators to eat the scale.

Also, unless the garage is hermetically sealed with positive pressure you can't completely eliminate the chances of pests getting in. I've had aphids attack trees when I overwintered in my garage.

 

[Glaucus]

Are plants more prone to pests when grown in a grow tent? That seems counterintuitive (because it's an enclosed environment) and like it makes total sense (because it's a very crowded enclosed environment) at the same time

If put in an unheated and uncooled garage, wouldn't that control for seasonal shifts?

Yes, they are much more. Since there are no predators, the conditions are ideal, and it is an enclosed environment so they don't disperse.

 

[electraus]

My question is why?
Why not put ‘em outside and let the natural weather cycle take care of them?
What’s the why not?

Well, as I mentioned, the question came to me after reading about how people grow cannabis indoors because it is also a full sun plant that is often found in temperate regions, so I started to wonder why it's possible to grow a cannabis plant in a grow tent and not, say, a California juniper.

Also, I live in the Bay Area in California where a decently nice home with a small backyard starts at around a cool $1.5M. I had to look for a place with a south facing balcony for months in order to have my trees.

 

[electraus]

Yes, they are much more. Since there are no predators, the conditions are ideal, and it is an enclosed environment so they don't disperse.

Makes a lot of sense. Sounds like you would be pumping out cash just to put yourself in an uphill battle to keep your plants alive. I wonder how cannabis growers manage this problem.

 

[Paradox]

Well, as I mentioned, the question came to me after reading about how people grow cannabis indoors because it is also a full sun plant that is often found in temperate regions, so I started to wonder why it's possible to grow a cannabis plant in a grow tent and not, say, a California juniper.

Also, I live in the Bay Area in California where a decently nice home with a small backyard starts at around a cool $1.5M. I had to look for a place with a south facing balcony for months in order to have my trees.

Cannabis is an annual plant that completes its life cycle in one season. It's basically a weed (no pun intended ). It doesn't need a dormant period because it normally dies before winter. It is also fast growing and cannabis operations harvest the product once it matures which is a matter of weeks.

You can't really compare that to a tree that can live for years.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Of course, with the right resources and budget it is possible. One can grow a full on rainforest indoors. Like this one, which they build some 40 years ago

View attachment 456010

Is this not a green house?

 

[electraus]

Jack wrote an article describing how he grew bonsai indoors: LINK

I'm spiraling into cognitive dissonance after reading this article