Why isn't Chinese elm more popular among professional bonsai artists?

[Animron]

Among professional bonsai growers/artists/masters in the US, Europe and Japan, you rarely find a Chinese elm in their bonsai collections. I wonder why? Given that this species is best suited for beginners due to its fast growth, rapid trunk thickening, disease resistance, small leaves (almost perfect ramification) and to some extent winter hardiness. Is it because the Chinese elm is "too easy" to grow and professionals are "ashamed" to have such a "beginner" kind of tree species in their collection? Not enough of a challenge? "Cheap" look? Or is it just a misconception that Chinese elms are only suitable for small shohin sized bonsai, even though they can have quite thick trunks if grown in the ground or in larger containers?
Why are Japanese maples, for example, much more popular even though they have larger leaves than Chinese elms (with the exception of acer palmatum Shishigashira) and grow more slowly, are more sensitive to heat, and their trunks thicken slowly? Can any bonsai expert explain to me the reason? Or is it just a pure coincidence?
Usually in professional collections we see many different pines, junipers, some yews, Japanese maples and some other deciduous trees, but it is rare to find a Chinese elm. Even other types of elms such as ulmus minor are more popular, I think.
Sorry for English ...

 

[Apex37]

I genuinely think a lot of it is because they're so much work to maintain at a very high level.

 

[BobbyLane]

Among professional bonsai growers/artists/masters in the US, Europe and Japan, you rarely find a Chinese elm in their bonsai collections. I wonder why? Given that this species is best suited for beginners due to its fast growth, rapid trunk thickening, disease resistance, small leaves (almost perfect ramification) and to some extent winter hardiness. Is it because the Chinese elm is "too easy" to grow and professionals are "ashamed" to have such a "beginner" kind of tree species in their collection? Not enough of a challenge? "Cheap" look? Or is it just a misconception that Chinese elms are only suitable for small shohin sized bonsai, even though they can have quite thick trunks if grown in the ground or in larger containers?
Why are Japanese maples, for example, much more popular even though they have larger leaves than Chinese elms (with the exception of acer palmatum Shishigashira) and grow more slowly, are more sensitive to heat, and their trunks thicken slowly? Can any bonsai expert explain to me the reason? Or is it just a pure coincidence?
Usually in professional collections we see many different pines, junipers, some yews, Japanese maples and some other deciduous trees, but it is rare to find a Chinese elm. Even other types of elms such as ulmus minor are more popular, I think.
Sorry for English ...

All these attributes can be found in the Japanese Elm/Zelkova, which seems to be more common among bonsai pros, from what ive observed. Its more common to find high quality, specimen Zelkova than it is Chinese elm, which indeed have become somewhat of a mass produced 'mallsai' tree. You can find good specimens which have been grown individually, maybe in the field, which dont fit the mallsai aesthetic. I have seen a few over the years.

C elm by Graham potter



Walter pall


Walter pall said his was originally a cookie cutter C elm which he changed up to suit his style.

If you can find one with a good trunk, which is rare, because they mass grow them in a certain way, you'd be able to put your own stamp on it. Most ive seen are generally just trimmed to the outline, ive rarely seen anyone take one back to its bare trunk, to eradicate the horrible downward growing branches.

 

[NaoTK]

It's called "nire-keyaki" or slippery bark zelkova ニレケヤキ in Japan and you do see them in the Kokufu from time to time, about as common as say a pomegranate. If you were in Japan you may just use a zelkova instead. They are very very common in high level Chinese pensai

 

[Colorado]

There were a few Chinese Elms at the Pacific Bonsai Expo this year, if I recall correctly. Seems like there is always at least one or two at the shows I’ve been to, which is not many. My point is that it seems to me that the species is used quite a bit by professionals, for all the reasons you’ve mentioned. Great species for bonsai.

 

[penumbra]

There were a few Chinese Elms at the Pacific Bonsai Expo this year, if I recall correctly. Seems like there is always at least one or two at the shows I’ve been to, which is not many. My point is that it seems to me that the species is used quite a bit by professionals, for all the reasons you’ve mentioned. Great species for bonsai.

I agree completely. There were some great ones at the Kannapolis show.

 

[BobbyLane]

There were a few Chinese Elms at the Pacific Bonsai Expo this year, if I recall correctly. Seems like there is always at least one or two at the shows I’ve been to, which is not many. My point is that it seems to me that the species is used quite a bit by professionals, for all the reasons you’ve mentioned. Great species for bonsai.

It's called "nire-keyaki" or slippery bark zelkova ニレケヤキ in Japan and you do see them in the Kokufu from time to time, about as common as say a pomegranate. If you were in Japan you may just use a zelkova instead. They are very very common in high level Chinese pensai

True and true, I have indeed seem them in Kokufu show pictures and there were a couple at the PBE shared on here recently.

 

[Animron]

I can only get very small mallsai Chinese elms with the classic S shape in our nurseries. I bought one of these four years ago and made 5 cuttings from it, which rooted very well. I threw away the original tree because I don't like S-shaped instant bonsai. It wasn't much thicker than a pencil, so I don't feel guilty about it But despite the fast growth, the trunk thickening is too slow for my taste and I am now in a dilemma whether to keep these Chinese elms and wait another 10 to 20 years to get a sufficiently thick trunk with the help of sacrificial branches or to replace all of them with Field elms (Ulmus minor), which grow in abundance in my area and some of which are also of specific dimensions...

If you had to choose between a Field elm (Ulmus minor) and a Chinese elm, which would you choose? I don't have enough space to grow both types, as I have a few other bonsa as well. I only have room for three or four elms, but I can't decide whether to keep these thin Chinese elms or dig up some Field elms, which are already between 10 and 15 years old, some thicker than my wrist. Unfortunately, most of the older ones have died because they were infected with Dutch elm disease, a disease to which the Chinese elm is supposedly resistant.

The advantages of the Chinese elm are smaller leaves and extremely fast growth, while the advantages of the Field elm are a more decorative bark and a more "homely" look. As for Zelkovas, they are almost impossible to get in our country, except online, which are extremely expensive. And even then, zelkovas (at least Japanese one) have much larger leaves than Chinese elm, so I don't see why it would be a better choice?

 

[BobbyLane]

Ive had nice Chinese elms, my only gripe with them in my micro climate, is that they hold onto their Green leaves over winter, performing more like a semi evergreen. So ill take the Ulmus minor everytime for that reason.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

In some ways they are like J. procumbens nana in that they are grown in large numbers for sale everywhere to the general public and that seems to create a negative connotation. However as Ryan Neil said in one of his videos on his procumbens, professionals look down their noses at them because they are so easy to grow and will essentially develop into a bonsai with little help. However he still has the very first one he started his bonsai journey with. I love growing Chinese elms and have about 6 now after buying one from Bill Valavanis several years ago. Every time I do a heavy prune I stick cuttings in a pot and increase my collection. They have small leaves so make good mame and shohin and if you follow @Eric Schraders advice you can develop a nice crown in a couple of years.

 

[Animron]

Ive had nice Chinese elms, my only gripe with them in my micro climate, is that they hold onto their Green leaves over winter, performing more like a semi evergreen. So ill take the Ulmus minor everytime for that reason.

Interesting. My Chinese elms, however, shed all their leaves in late October or early November, or at the first serious frost (although I bought them as indoor bonsai and gradually acclimated them to winter over the course of two or three years). I know someone who bought a Chinese elm from the same nursery as I, but his elm keeps its green leaves until mid-January, even if temperatures drop below -5°C (23°F) for several days over night period. Obviously there is a lot of variability. My only fear is that my Chinese elms would freeze to death in severe and prolonged frosts (although there have been no sever winters in recent years), so Ulmus minor is probably a better choice because it is much more resistant to cold.

 

[pandacular]

Ive had nice Chinese elms, my only gripe with them in my micro climate, is that they hold onto their Green leaves over winter, performing more like a semi evergreen. So ill take the Ulmus minor everytime for that reason.

This happens on some of my elms, some of the time. It’s rather confusing and I’m not sure how to deal with it. For now, as none as my teachers use them (perhaps a data point for the assumption of the thread), I think I’ll move all my elms along.

 

[Adamski77]

Interesting thread as I just finished autumn/winter work on my Chinese elms. Probably all reasons already given... they are "easy" to grow and ramify, easy to heal but have to say you got to stay on the top of your game throughout the season if you don't want to continue cutting off all the branches every season end. Depending on the size and particular specimen they might have very coarse growth or very fine branching... I have 3 of them and can see massive differences. I actually enjoy them greatly... very rewarding trees... though have to say I was lucky to find really good starting material (funny enough I bought them it in plastic bags ). Few recent photos plus how I bought them... all in 2-3 years.

 

[Michael P]

In Chinese (Lacebark) elms, the degree and timing of leaf drop are strongly influenced by genetics. There are landscape cultivars which were selected for more evergreen habit. There seems to be one set of cultivars common in bonsai and another set common in the US nursery trade, with little crossover between the two groups. It would be interesting to see how 'True Green' or 'Allee' respond to bonsai culture.

All of my Chinese elms are unnamed seed propagated ones ultimately derived from nursery stock. I love them because they thrive in my climate and develop quickly.

 

[shohin_branches]

It's hard to find good material for chinese elm that isn't an S curve in the United States.

I love this one that is in the collection at the Lynden Sculpture Garden in Milwaukee. It was imported from China in 1991. You can't find quality material for something like this in the US.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

In Tokyo they literally grow out of cracks in the sidewalk, so I have the image of them being king of like a weed. They grow really fast to the point that they get in the way of cyclists and pedestrians and then people come and hack them down.
They are also often sold as "mallsai" in home centers here, so that might attribute to people's attitudes of them being cheap trees here. There are some great examples floating around (mostly shohin), but it would seem the average professional in Japan prefers Zelkova.

*Some people love them because of the bark that you can't get on regular Zelkova. I have to admit that they're starting to grow on me too.

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

I like the small leaves and interesting bark. The branches seem brittle at times, but the species is very tough, and grows fast. Best one I've seen in person. Matthaei botanical gardens in Ann Arbor MI.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

This happens on some of my elms, some of the time. It’s rather confusing and I’m not sure how to deal with it. For now, as none as my teachers use them (perhaps a data point for the assumption of the thread), I think I’ll move all my elms along.

likely they will lose their leaves during the recent cold spell. If not defoliate the remaining. Scissors if the leaves tear the trunk.

The main reason, as far as I can see, is Chinese elm are somewhat of a specialty the Japanese never really latched into, possibly as Zelkova are readily available, which was mentioned

We work on a couple Penjing elm forests and one very large elm bonsai at the museum. Can personally attest to how much time these compositions, especially the Penjings take to keep in top form!

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Animron]

There are some great examples floating around (mostly shohin), but it would seem the average professional in Japan prefers Zelkova.

I'm not sure why the Japanese prefer Zelkova, which has leaves at least twice as large as the Chinese elm. Maybe it's more about tradition, as the Japanese Zelkova is considered a kind of sacred tree that can live over 1000 years, while the Chinese elm only lives about 100 years on average. So if you're growing bonsai for the next generations, then the Zelkova is definitely a better choice. Especially Caucasian Zelkova, which has smaller leaves than the Japanese one, but it's very difficult to get.

It's actually really strange why only Japanese zelkova, which has the largest leaves among the zelkovas, is used in bonsai. There are also the Caucasian (Zelkova carpinifolia), Chinese (Zelkova schneideriana/sinica) and Cretan (Zelkova abeliacae) zelkovas, which I have never seen in bonsai containers.

 

[rockm]

I have a feeling that they're not used a lot by bonsai professionals because the vast majority of CE material available is not really of that caliber. Its also more of a Penjing species than traditional Japanese bonsai species. It is and has been pretty common in Chinese penjing. It's also not native to most of Japan and grows in warmer areas in China. The Chinese collection at the National Bonsai and Penjing Museum has many old CE specimens like the one below, which began training in 1950. The windswept one is a more recent add, donated in 2002. Age is unknown, but it looks like it was adapted from a nursery grown tree.