Why do I do this crap?

Mike Corazzi

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Some wire was cutting in to a mugo so I clipped it off.

Then I messed around and saw some different possibilities.

So ...NOW... it has more wire on it than it ever did.



Go ahead.....REPOT me.

I'm kinda potted on rum and coke anyhow.

:confused:
 
Some wire was cutting in to a mugo so I clipped it off.

Then I messed around and saw some different possibilities.

So ...NOW... it has more wire on it than it ever did.



Go ahead.....REPOT me.

I'm kinda potted on rum and coke anyhow.

:confused:
Next time, dont clip it off, unwind it! (especially if you're potted on run and coke! It's easy to clip off a branch by mistake! And hard to cut wire that's buried!)

Pines will almost always need to have wire on them. Forever!
 
I hate to disagree with @Adair M on the topic of wiring, but this topic is really about removing wire.
I would rather cut my wire off, one coil at a time.... and only using good bonsai wire cutters, which are snub-nosed and give you great leverage when cutting wire, so the wire doesn't get squeezed and damage your branch, as it would if you used standard wire cutters for electricians.
Un-wiring a branch is unnecessary stress on the branch and if it's starting to bite, you can tear bark off too, when un-wiring.
And if your main goal is to reuse your wire.....stop being so cheap.
Just my humble opinion.
 
I unwind until I can't because the wire starts smacking into other branches and the like. Then I cut it and continue unwinding.

In my experience, I can remove heavily 'bit in' wire with minimal additional damage (versus it being very difficult to cut the wire in this state). I used to cut off copper wire one loop at a time. Then I kept finding loops I didn't get off the tree (which often was then nightmarishly difficult to remove).

I've never been so snockered that I cut a branch instead of the wire - I'll have to give that a try :D
What is recommended, Scotch, bourbon, Long Island ice tea, wine?
 
I unwind until I can't because the wire starts smacking into other branches and the like. Then I cut it and continue unwinding.

In my experience, I can remove heavily 'bit in' wire with minimal additional damage (versus it being very difficult to cut the wire in this state). I used to cut off copper wire one loop at a time. Then I kept finding loops I didn't get off the tree (which often was then nightmarishly difficult to remove).

I've never been so snockered that I cut a branch instead of the wire - I'll have to give that a try :D
What is recommended, Scotch, bourbon, Long Island ice tea, wine?
Lol! I agree, if it's bit on too much, cutting is not an option.
 
I hate to disagree with @Adair M on the topic of wiring, but this topic is really about removing wire.
I would rather cut my wire off, one coil at a time.... and only using good bonsai wire cutters, which are snub-nosed and give you great leverage when cutting wire, so the wire doesn't get squeezed and damage your branch, as it would if you used standard wire cutters for electricians.
Un-wiring a branch is unnecessary stress on the branch and if it's starting to bite, you can tear bark off too, when un-wiring.
And if your main goal is to reuse your wire.....stop being so cheap.
Just my humble opinion.
No, I don't unwind to be cheap. I save my old copper to sell to the recycler.

You are not the first person to question me on this. It's a technique I learned from Boon. Who learned it from his teacher, Kamiya. I have the pleasure of knowing many certified Bonsai Masters from Japan, and ALL of them unwind rather than cut off their wire. ESPECIALLY, if it has cut in.

Why?

Embedded wire has only a portion of the wire exposed, right? If you take bonsai wire cutters, the blunt tip ones, you can only cut 1/2 way thru the wire. You can't cut completely thru the wire without first cutting thru some wood to get the jaws of the cutters deep enough to cut entirely thru the wire.

And, I'm sure you've noticed: sometimes if you don't get the cutters exactly perpendicular to the wire, when you cut, the little chunk you're removing will twist as the cut is made. Sometimes if it were embedded the twisting can damage the branch all along where the chunk of wire was.

You may accidentally leave a chunk or two of wire in the tree! Don't laugh, I have found old chunk of wire is several of my clients' trees.

You may accidentally leave chunks of wire on the soil. Again, I've found them when working trees.

Large and really large wire may be too stiff to unwind. Gauge 10 is about the cutoff point. (Pun intended!). Large wire usually doesn't cut in as badly as the small stuff, so you're usually ok. I will unwind any wire I can.

So far I just described the drawbacks of cutting it off.

Unwinding wire is no more damaging that putting it on in the first place. If you have seen any of my wiring tutorials in the Resources Section of this forum, you see I end each end of wire with a little fishhook. The fishhook not only allows me to guide the bud at the tip, it's easy to grab with a pair of bonsai Jin pliers. With one hand spinning the pliers around in my hand, and my other hand steadying the branch one turn back, unspinning allows the wire to lift straight up off the branch. If it's a little (or a lot!) cut in, lifting straight up does the least damage. I unwind all the way back to the anchor point, then find the other end, unwind it back to the anchor, and then pull the wire out. If it's all kinked up and long, you can cut it in half to ease removal.

Start with the small wires first. Those should have been the last wires you put on. Then work progressively back to larger and larger wires.

You will find that you won't accidentally cut thru branches. You dont have to struggle to get wire cutters in awkward places. Your hand holding the pliers never really gets inside the canopy.

Truely, it is both less damaging to the tree, and faster.

Oh, I was a skeptic, too, at first. I told Boon that John Naka had taught me how to cut off wire! Boon said that no one ever told Naka the right way to do it! Lol!!! It did take a bit of practice. But now, I wouldn't consider any other way.
 
Ryan Neil (trigger alert! @M. Frary ) advises unwinding where possible. In my relatively limited experience, unwinding is preferable when the wire has started to dig in enough to make it difficult to cut cleanly. Sometimes if you try to force the wire cutters to cut wire that has dug in, you wind up causing the wire to shift and it does more damage than unwinding ever would (unless you're completely careless about it).
 
No, I don't unwind to be cheap. I save my old copper to sell to the recycler.

You are not the first person to question me on this. It's a technique I learned from Boon. Who learned it from his teacher, Kamiya. I have the pleasure of knowing many certified Bonsai Masters from Japan, and ALL of them unwind rather than cut off their wire. ESPECIALLY, if it has cut in.

Why?

Embedded wire has only a portion of the wire exposed, right? If you take bonsai wire cutters, the blunt tip ones, you can only cut 1/2 way thru the wire. You can't cut completely thru the wire without first cutting thru some wood to get the jaws of the cutters deep enough to cut entirely thru the wire.

And, I'm sure you've noticed: sometimes if you don't get the cutters exactly perpendicular to the wire, when you cut, the little chunk you're removing will twist as the cut is made. Sometimes if it were embedded the twisting can damage the branch all along where the chunk of wire was.

You may accidentally leave a chunk or two of wire in the tree! Don't laugh, I have found old chunk of wire is several of my clients' trees.

You may accidentally leave chunks of wire on the soil. Again, I've found them when working trees.

Large and really large wire may be too stiff to unwind. Gauge 10 is about the cutoff point. (Pun intended!). Large wire usually doesn't cut in as badly as the small stuff, so you're usually ok. I will unwind any wire I can.

So far I just described the drawbacks of cutting it off.

Unwinding wire is no more damaging that putting it on in the first place. If you have seen any of my wiring tutorials in the Resources Section of this forum, you see I end each end of wire with a little fishhook. The fishhook not only allows me to guide the bud at the tip, it's easy to grab with a pair of bonsai Jin pliers. With one hand spinning the pliers around in my hand, and my other hand steadying the branch one turn back, unspinning allows the wire to lift straight up off the branch. If it's a little (or a lot!) cut in, lifting straight up does the least damage. I unwind all the way back to the anchor point, then find the other end, unwind it back to the anchor, and then pull the wire out. If it's all kinked up and long, you can cut it in half to ease removal.

Start with the small wires first. Those should have been the last wires you put on. Then work progressively back to larger and larger wires.

You will find that you won't accidentally cut thru branches. You dont have to struggle to get wire cutters in awkward places. Your hand holding the pliers never really gets inside the canopy.

Truely, it is both less damaging to the tree, and faster.

Oh, I was a skeptic, too, at first. I told Boon that John Naka had taught me how to cut off wire! Boon said that no one ever told Naka the right way to do it! Lol!!! It did take a bit of practice. But now, I wouldn't consider any other way.
You're the man @Adair M !
I wasn't calling you cheap, BTW....that was a general statement.
Thank you!
 
You're the man @Adair M !
I wasn't calling you cheap, BTW....that was a general statement.
Thank you!
It's a question I get asked about a lot. And when I first started posting here on BonsaiNut, I advised to unwind, and well, I got my eyebrows burned off!

Since that time, others have realized that the pros unwind.

It is a technique that has long been the standard in Japan, but not here in the USA. It's only been in recent years that Americans were allowed to be apprentices in Japan, and learn the Japanese techniques. And bring them back.

There were a lot of old obsolete techniques I had to unlearn.

And, unfortunately, those old obsolete methods are documented in books on bonsai. So, newbies to bonsai go read the old books, and learn outdated methods. So, I don't recommend any books about bonsai, except picture books. Most of the books just rehash the same info over again. And often, it's out of date.

I do suggest finding a mentor whose trees you like, and study with them.

For me, it's Boon. For others it's Ryan, or Bjorn, or Peter Tea, Rodney Clemons, Walter Pall... whoever. Find that mentor, and learn their methods. Don't get sidetracked by using many mentors. All you will be is confused.

For example, there's a group in Atlanta who brings in Kathy Shaner 3 or 4 times a year for a small, private, Study Group. I was invited to join. But I respectfully declined. Don't get me wrong, I like Kathy, she's a wonderful artist, but she does things differently than Boon. That's ok. In fact, she has judged my trees at several shows. And she told me that I should stick with Boon.

Some say they want to learn from all the Masters, to pick up all the different techniques. Not for me, thank you. Too many cooks in the kitchen!
 
I spose I shudda said right off that it was just.......starting.....to cut in.
The bonsai wire cutter did no damage.
Neither did the rum.
;)
 
Lol
I tend to unwind when I'm drinking rum and coke........................................................................... :D
Lol!!!

I tend to unwind when I'm wiring trees! :p
 
NOW.... I think I better change the tenor to WHY DO I MESS WITH .....PINES ??
My nice tractable and obedient junipers like me and will "get the idea" when I wire them.
They seem to LIKE what I do to them and reward me with staying somewhat where I train them to go..

But PINES.... aagggghhhhhh..... WE WANT WIRE FOREVER, YOU DOLT !!! :mad:

Which is an attitude incompatible with the whole bonsai attraction.

Not relaxing at all. Get a somewhat evocative composition like a nice little....oh say.... OLIVE will provide and does it STAY?

NO!

Off the damn limb goes doing what IT wants to do. Springy, disobedient SHRUBS !!!!

I mean who sticks around keeping wire on the 3000 year old Bristlecones in the Sierras?


Hello, operator? Get me Japan please. o_O
 
What we haven't considered is that deciduous (or semi) may just be SMARTER than pines. :D

Or possibly just more independent and willing to learn from their owners what's expected of them. :p

I asked my sensei/mentor/best local expert if a 12 gauge shotgun could be considered a bonsai tool.

He said, "Sometimes." :D:D:D
 
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