White pine help

[Phillthy]

went to Home Depot to buy some lumber and this tree came home with me. It was 50% off. I need some suggestions on what to do with it. All the branches are bar branches and they're all at the same area. I know that's a no no for bonsai. I don't know what to do with it. Can anyone tell me which branches to cut which to keep? Also is it weird that all the branches are like that?

 

[Nybonsai12]

what kind of white pine is this? Since it's from Home Depot looks like it could be eastern white pine, not Japanese white pine. Eastern are tough to use for bonsai, they have long needles and it will be an eternity before you have bark on that tree. The growth pattern you have is normal where all the branches emerge from a whorl.

Unfortunately my suggestion would be to put it in your landscape and find something better suited for bonsai. And i say this as somebody who has an eastern white pine that I am trying to make into a bonsai.

 

[R3x]

Well if you want to give it a try here's one method:

1. cut away above the first "level".
2. leave 2 branches from the remaining level - cut away all the rest (use concave cutters so that you won't get ugly bulges)
3. let one of the remaining branches grow as much as it wants for year or two or three (or even more) - this will be the "sacrifice" branch that provides lots of energy to root and rest of the tree to make it thicken
4. start working with the other remaining branch - pinch it, decandle, wire, ... - so that you create secondary and tertiary branches. Make sure it doesn't get leggy. This will be your primary branch or maybe even new continuation of trunk.
5. repot in a way that original trunk moves diagonally to some extent - let's say from bottom right to top left, point primary branch so that it moves in inverse diagonal movement (from left to right upwards) - that way you'll get S-like movement
   
6. after the trunk has thickened to your liking (or the sacrifice branch is too thick and the scar would heal for too long or wouldn't heal at all) you can cut away the sacrifice branch. If you worked correctly with your primary branch you will get nice compact tree with robust trunk.
7. select another branch that will be a sacrifice branch if you still need thicker trunk. If you need another permanent branch select one as well, point it in a reverse direction than the primary one - again creating S-shaped movement.
8. let the new sacrifice branch grow. Go to step 6.

The basic idea is:

1. create alternating movement with branches that will form future trunk
2. take care (pinch, decandle, wire, ensure short internodes ...) branches you want to keep
3. let the sacrifice branch grow as much as possible to provide energy to the rest of the tree for it to thicken (but cut it off before it gets complicated to heal the scar afterwards)

It will grow much faster in ground than in a pot (unless you really know how to grow trees in a pot - see for example http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.de/2010/06/feeding-substrate-and-watering-english.html

 

[Redwood Ryan]

My advice would be to not buy a tree, then ask what to do with it. Buy trees you see potential in, not trees that are on sale. I don't want to sound harsh, but sometimes it's better to save the money instead of spending it on a piece of material that won't work out in the long run.

Just because a tree that's usable for bonsai is on sale, doesn't mean you should buy it.

Good luck!

(Again, not meaning to sound harsh)

 

[GGB]

Love the genus, hate the whorls! the whorls are the points on a pine where all the branches grow from, when left unchecked. I'm personally jealous of this tree, EWP blow as bonsai specimens but I think this one could be something kinda fun. There's a tilt (movements) at the base of the trunk. I agree with R3X knock off the top of the tree right above the first whorl, and pick the branch that tilts aways from the trunk as the new leader. Get a zoro thing going. Sacrifice branches are great for species like EWP that refuse to thicken, the only thing I'd do differently than R3X is I wouldn't let it grow unchecked past 1 year. These pines get dorky looking really fast ie. the foliage gets really far away from the trunk really fast and doesn't back bud easily

 

[R3x]

Love the genus, hate the whorls! the whorls are the points on a pine where all the branches grow from, when left unchecked. I'm personally jealous of this tree, EWP blow as bonsai specimens but I think this one could be something kinda fun. There's a tilt (movements) at the base of the trunk. I agree with R3X knock off the top of the tree right above the first whorl, and pick the branch that tilts aways from the trunk as the new leader. Get a zoro thing going. Sacrifice branches are great for species like EWP that refuse to thicken, the only thing I'd do differently than R3X is I wouldn't let it grow unchecked past 1 year. These pines get dorky looking really fast ie. the foliage gets really far away from the trunk really fast and doesn't back bud easily

Well I have written that (s)he has to work with the rest of the tree - cannot get the foliage on permanent branches get too far (I used the word leggy). That's why pinching, decandling, wiring is required on the branches that should stay...

 

[0soyoung]

In addition to the standard 'zig-zag' styling, pine bonsai are also often just a trunk with a whorl at the top. The branches of that whorl are wired downward to form a 'helmet' of foliage and the leader is twisted around to form the apex (and obscure the whorl). Something like this is most commonly done with yamadori for obvious reasons.

At this point, the trunk likely can be twisted/bent to shorten the tree as well as put more movement into the trunk. P. strobus stems tend to collapse/crack somewhat unpredictably. It helps to twist the stem, while bending it, in the direction that causes your wire wraps to tighten. With bigger stems, it also helps to first wrap it with self-amalgamating silicone tape (get it at any auto parts store - it is made to repair radiator hoses) then apply the wire. On smaller stems, it seems to work well to wrap the area of the 'break' with parafilm, or HDPE (cut paste likely works too).

... just some alternatives to think about, @Phillthy.

 

[Adair M]

R3X,

This is a 5 needle pine. Eastern White Pine. You don't decandle these.

 

[0soyoung]

R3X,

This is a 5 needle pine. Eastern White Pine. You don't decandle these.

Well, actually one can decandle p. strobus. It will regenerate the terminal bud and, if done at the right time, will also produce radically shortened needles just like p. thunbergii.
The rub, though, is that p. strobus budding is strictly at fascicle bases and terminals; it will NOT pop epicormic buds. In this regard it is much like p. parviflora (aka JWP, p. pentaphylla).

 

[GGB]

@R3x my bad! I was interrupted 10 times while reading your post. I second it 100%. People think they can talk at me just because I'm work, jeez

 

[R3x]

@R3x my bad! I was interrupted 10 times while reading your post. I second it 100%. People think they can talk at me just because I'm work, jeez

No harm done ;-)

 

[R3x]

R3X,

This is a 5 needle pine. Eastern White Pine. You don't decandle these.

I was writing more generally but after fact checking you are right (was just watching JBP decandling video few hours sooner that got me confused): on white pines you shorten (cut in half) new candles instead of total decandling. Thanx for the correction.

Ryan Neil has a great 2 series video on pines (2nd part is mostly on single-flush pines where white pines fall):

 

[fourteener]

Put it in your landscape. I have two of them, they are unruly, you need to do a large tree with them to match the needle size. They sulk for a long time when you disturb the roots.

Some times the best choice is to save your deal money for something more suitable. Headaches aren't the best way to expose yourself to a hobby.

On the plus side maybe some Eagles will nest in your white pine 80 years from now!!

 

[Tieball]

My advice would be to not buy a tree, then ask what to do with it. Buy trees you see potential in, not trees that are on sale. I don't want to sound harsh, but sometimes it's better to save the money instead of spending it on a piece of material that won't work out in the long run.

Just because a tree that's usable for bonsai is on sale, doesn't mean you should buy it.

Good luck!

(Again, not meaning to sound harsh)

Good solid advice.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@Phillthy - welcome to the weird and wacky world of Eastern white pine. Pinus strobus. This native to North America, 5 needle pine is a difficult species to work with as bonsai. I gave up on mine after 20 years. But you have been told already, and you do have the tree, so I'll assume you will try to make Bonsai with it. EWP is related to Japanese white pine, read care instructions for JWP and care for EWP will largely be the same. EWP has the advantage of being more cold hardy than JWP, so winter care is easy, set it on the ground, in the shade and except to check for water, leave it outside all winter. They also tolerate wet soils better than JWP.

I would reduce the first whorl of branches to 3 branches, pick the smallest to be your first branch, the second smallest to be your spare in case something happens to the first. The largest can be your sacrifice. Or you can keep the two smallest at the first whorl, and cut off the rest,but don't cut the trunk. The current trunk can become the sacrifice branch. Remove all the branches from the second and third whorls of branches. This will let the first branch get full sun. Let it grow for at least a couple year. The sacrifice should be allowed to grow freely, to six feet or more. Read up on EWP and JWP. It will be a year or two before you need to do anything again, other than sun, water and fertilizer.