What type of Root Pouch is best.

[TrevorLarsen]

I didn’t see a post on this exact topics, but sorry if it has been discussed. I was wondering what type of Root Pouch people recommend the most. There are 5 different “lines” as they put it. The lines are the “Boxer” the “Black Line” the “Grey Line” the “Charcoal line” and finally the “Thin Black Line”.

There is information about each one on their site, but I was just wondering what lines people have used and what they have used them for. I am just not sure which one is best.

Also if anyone has a place they recommend buying them at that would be helpful too.

 

[WavyGaby]

I did some fall repotting and Im trying the Black, Thin Black and Charcoal in various sizes. The 1 and 2 gal sizes were folded in half to reduce the height. I would prefer more size is the 5-6" tall range. However, I think the quart and half quart sizes are good as is for cuttings and seedlings.
You definitely have to water more, even in winter. Also, not much to tie into for developed stock. However, it should help my younger stock get that fine root growth.

 

[PonderingSage:]

Mine are the light grey meant to be buried. I have the 3 quart (?)l, seems to be a good size.

 

[W3rk]

I didn’t see a post on this exact topics, but sorry if it has been discussed. I was wondering what type of Root Pouch people recommend the most. There are 5 different “lines” as they put it. The lines are the “Boxer” the “Black Line” the “Grey Line” the “Charcoal line” and finally the “Thin Black Line”.

There is information about each one on their site, but I was just wondering what lines people have used and what they have used them for. I am just not sure which one is best.

Also if anyone has a place they recommend buying them at that would be helpful too.

I can speak to quality differences by name but have used 3 different manufacturers, including Root Pouch specifically. The main qualities that I would say matter most: durability and breathability. For my root pouches I might have gone with a grey and a brown bag/different sizes and can't claim that I've "seen" a difference. I primarily made my choices based on a balance of cost and size. And all things being equal, if possible I would choose the lighter grey over black for less heat.

I think I actually ordered my Root Pouches specifically through Lowes.

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

I didn’t see a post on this exact topics, but sorry if it has been discussed. I was wondering what type of Root Pouch people recommend the most. There are 5 different “lines” as they put it. The lines are the “Boxer” the “Black Line” the “Grey Line” the “Charcoal line” and finally the “Thin Black Line”.

There is information about each one on their site, but I was just wondering what lines people have used and what they have used them for. I am just not sure which one is best.

Also if anyone has a place they recommend buying them at that would be helpful too.

Did you end up getting any of these?

I got some included with my grow tent and put a tiger bark ficus in one, seems good in the tent but now I'm wondering if it'll get to dry in the summer. Although I remember seeing @Maiden69 using them in Texas. I also put a JBP in another one today.

 

[TrevorLarsen]

Did you end up getting any of these?

I got some included with my grow tent and put a tiger bark ficus in one, seems good in the tent but now I'm wondering if it'll get to dry in the summer. Although I remember seeing @Maiden69 using them in Texas. I also put a JBP in another one today.

Yeah I got some grey ones. I planted my Seiju into one the other day. I’ll use the other 6 or so soon.

 

[Damart81]

Yeah I got some grey ones. I planted my Seiju into one the other day. I’ll use the other 6 or so soon.

Nice, are they in pond baskets to hold the pumice?

 

[TrevorLarsen]

Nice, are they in pond baskets to hold the pumice?

No just the pouches and they are in a big regular flower pot.

 

[pandacular]

I tried the Root Pouch brand, but didn’t like the sizes available. For a much lower price, you can get ones specifically made for bonsai from @JEads on https://www.leftcoastbonsai.com, and I’ve enjoyed those much more.

 

[Cruiser]

I went with a generic brown variety. 5 gallon. No handles.

Spring ‘24, two corkbark jbps were put into them with pumice and planted in the ground.

Recently, the trees had to be moved. Here’s what I found.


Strong root growth through the fabric. Nice.

 

[TrevorLarsen]

I went with a generic brown variety. 5 gallon. No handles.

Spring ‘24, two corkbark jbps were put into them with pumice and planted in the ground.

Recently, the trees had to be moved. Here’s what I found.
View attachment 591567
View attachment 591569
Strong root growth through the fabric. Nice.

Root prune my ass. It seems super healthy though.

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

I went with a generic brown variety. 5 gallon. No handles.

Spring ‘24, two corkbark jbps were put into them with pumice and planted in the ground.

Recently, the trees had to be moved. Here’s what I found.


Strong root growth through the fabric. Nice.

Not for nothing, but I think you putting the pouch in the ground nullified the air pruning part.

When roots grow to the edge of the pouch and come in contact with the air, the root tips naturally dry out and stop growing (air pruning).

I have some trees in pouches but they've only been in them less than a year so I don't have any real world experience yet. In other words, what do I know?

 

[MGTT]

Fwiw, I’ve used generic root pouches/bags as ‘above ground pots’ for a number of years. (For developing stock, and they’re cheap!).

I haven’t seen that they necessarily air prune roots. They do fill with roots and get rock hard, removing trees is surprisingly difficult, the roots enter the fabric. I’ve cut them out, but if I left them in for more than 2 years without a ‘repot’, I would cut the bag to remove the tree.

Versus a pot? My $0.02 is they aren’t better-but there are a few caveats. They are larger than pots, so watering can be challenging. And, the trees aren’t as firmly secured. But, again, they’re cheap - so I’m still using them for young stock.

I’ve had (much) better success with pond baskets. But, that may be because they’re better sized to the trees. @pandacular ‘s recommendation for appropriate sized pouches may be the way, watering would be easier, so the tree may develop faster.

I’ve no experience using them inground. At this point, I’m only growing maples inground, and I’ve found @Shibui ’s recommendation of lifting them yearly and working on the roots is working very well. Given that, there’s really no need for a root pouches for me.

But, I think if you had slower growing trees, the root pouches may be helpful with removal - I just don’t know for sure.

 

[pandacular]

I’ve had (much) better success with pond baskets. But, that may be because they’re better sized to the trees. @pandacular ‘s recommendation for appropriate sized pouches may be the way, watering would be easier, so the tree may develop faster.

For me, I think pond baskets and net pots will win out for conifers, but we have very wet winters.

I actually recently potted a nursery beech into a (generic) root pouch with handles, and doing so was educational for some aspects of using these. One thing you can see in this picture, taken after about 5-6 minutes of pulling roots and cleaning out pumice dust, is that the lack of drainage holes means you have to be extremely diligent to remove fines and dust. Otherwise, you are left only with crust! I think this is why my ponderosae hated them—too much dust + no holes = wet feet


Another aspect is not all bags are stitched the same. The Root Pouch branded ones have substantially wider seems which make them harder to handle. I’m going to try a few inside out to see if that helps.

The final thing I noticed is that I think the handles are trouble for roots, as they pull outwards. Definitely not worth it!

 

[Cruiser]

Not for nothing, but I think you putting the pouch in the ground nullified the air pruning part.

When roots grow to the edge of the pouch and come in contact with the air, the root tips naturally dry out and stop growing (air pruning).

I have some trees in pouches but they've only been in them less than a year so I don't have any real world experience yet. In other words, what do I know?

Root prune my ass. It seems super healthy though.

The intention was to see if roots could permeate the bag
So a bagged tree gets freedom to grow in the ground, then the whole package can easily be removed when the time comes.

 

[stubmle]

Supposedly some of the "Root Pouch" branded bags don't use air-pruning; instead the structure of the fabric prunes the roots when they reach it, so they can be used in-ground. At least one member has posted about their results with them and it seemed favorable, but I do not recall who it was or any other details.

I don't have any personal experience with pouches yet, though I have been idly looking into them now and then. Might buy some and test them out this year.

 

[MGTT]

Yes, a member from Texas used them in a raised bed and (my recollection is) he liked them (a lot).

I like your description - that has kind of been my experience (above ground).

However, I’ll go back to shibui’s recommendation of lifting the trees yearly from a grow bed.

While pouches are cheap, if you lift yearly there’s really no need for pouches.

But, every situation is unique. I definitely saw where pouches worked in the raised bed. A somewhat loose soil allowed for easy lifting of the tree in a pouch. With my grow bed (small!) trees in a clay soil, digging a pouch, or a tree, is basically the same amount of effort.

Interestingly, the more I respond, the more I don’t see a benefit

 

[pandacular]

Yes, a member from Texas used them in a raised bed and (my recollection is) he liked them (a lot).

That would be @Maiden69

 

[Maiden69]

Root prune my ass.

Because it is a cheap off-brand.

Not for nothing, but I think you putting the pouch in the ground nullified the air pruning part.

Rootpouch that is intended for in-ground growing don't air prune, the prune by entrapment. The fabric pinches the new root tip and kills it, forcing the root to branch a few inches back. Also, the Root Maker brand does this as well. Those are the only two brands in the market that I know off that don't rely on air to prune the roots.

However, I’ll go back to shibui’s recommendation of lifting the trees yearly from a grow bed.

While pouches are cheap, if you lift yearly there’s really no need for pouches.

You are missing the point of the Rootpouch and Root Maker design. They are constantly pruning the roots, not once a year when you "lift" the tree to prune the roots. The more fibrous roots close to the trunk the faster the tree will develop.

All pouches will let some roots escape, but when they do on the Rootpouch and Root Maker brand it is by the seams. I have not had a single pouch let a thick root out through the fabric. You can see a few white tips when you pull them out of the ground, but they are on the way to die.

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

Because it is a cheap off-brand.

Rootpouch that is intended for in-ground growing don't air prune, the prune by entrapment. The fabric pinches the new root tip and kills it, forcing the root to branch a few inches back. Also, the Root Maker brand does this as well. Those are the only two brands in the market that I know off that don't rely on air to prune the roots.

You are missing the point of the Rootpouch and Root Maker design. They are constantly pruning the roots, not once a year when you "lift" the tree to prune the roots. The more fibrous roots close to the trunk the faster the tree will develop.

All pouches will let some roots escape, but when they do on the Rootpouch and Root Maker brand it is by the seams. I have not had a single pouch let a thick root out through the fabric. You can see a few white tips when you pull them out of the ground, but they are on the way to die.

Yeah, I don't have the Root pouch (TM) brand, just some grow bags that came with my grow tent. I put a TBF in one last summer, so I don't have any results yet. looking into the grow bags further, that's all they are, so I'm not expecting much. Pic of what they may or may not look like.