What 's killing this Elm?

[travislivid]

This is a Cedar Elm. It was collected in early spring. I have watched the top limbs lose their leaves, go dry and no green under the bark anymore. After determining the upper half is dry and dead, I cut the worst part off the top. Found this



Maybe remnants of Elm beetles? The tree has been well treated with a systemic and there is no sign at all of any insects. I am going to take this 1" piece I cut off to my shop and go at it with a band saw out of curiosity. Is there any more I can do? What should I be looking for? I have of the lower limbs with good new growth going but it looks like the tree is dying from the top down. Is it a good idea to cut all the dead off so that the tree can put what it has into the good lower limbs?
Thanks

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Those brown patches are the remnants of old branches that died, and cambium formed a callus around the dead wood.

As to it's demise, the photo doesn't seem to provide any clues.

 

[edprocoat]

So thats a piece you cut off the tree in question, right? I was asking as you can not see the base of the tree and I assume you just recently brought it inside, maybe to take the picture of it in less harsh light? It could be either dutch elm disease or native elm wilt, unfortunately the treatment for both those is destroy the affected tree.

ed

 

[stacy allen muse]

??????????????

 

[travislivid]

Yes, I just brought in the cutoff piece to take a picture. It was getting dark. So far the lower part of the tree is doing great and putting out new growth. I am hoping that maybe the root system just did not develop well enough after collection to support the entire tree. But that the lower half will make it. Wishful thinking. Others can correct me if I am wrong but cedar elms here in central Texas are not having a problem with Dutch elm. At least in my are I do not see it affecting the wild trees so I am hoping that's no it.

 

[Smoke]

The darkening in the interior of the the trunk or branch looks like Verticilium to me. Elms are as sussceptable as maple and rose. Dying from the top down is a good indicator also, since the tree shows signs from the end of the trail (branch tips) so to speak and works its way down to the root with the trunk going last. Since elms have a more rough bark it is hard to see darkening of the bark while maples show this fairly early. Fungus is bad stuff.

 

[travislivid]

I guess there is no treatment for verticillium? I have the tree away from the others and have made sure to sterilize the tools. Wait and see.

 

[rockm]

It is NOT verticillium. If it were, the tree would be dead. Those dark spots were covered long ago and are most likely remnants of drought or some kind of short-term stress a few decades ago.
As for the die back up top, I'd say its from aggressive collection and possibly a soil issue. Collected trees are NOT stable for at least a year after collection. Although cedar elm is a very tough customer, it can die back with drastic pruning. Additionally, check the soil and watering. With the excessive heat that requires more watering, the developing root mass may be dieing back too. This can happen in areas in the soil that remain constantly wet and recently-pruned roots sit in water...

Can't really tell definitively with no photos of the bottom of the tree, though.

For the most part, I wouldn't panic about this being V. wilt, or Dutch Elm Disease (which is a pretty unlikely thing, since DED attacks large elm trees and Cedar elm is pretty resistant to it). I'd be more concerned with what's going on under the soil. My guess is that is where the problem lies.

 

[edprocoat]

Travis, I copied this from www.texasinvasives.org/.../DUTCH_ELM_DISEASE_Appel.pdf I seen where you and others thought Cedar Elms are pretty resistant to DED, which I know my father-in-law in Ft. Worth lost his cedar elms thinking the same thing. This article has some great info also some pictures showing the spotting under the bark, explains how they dry out from the top down or wilt from the disease blocking the ability of the Elm to take up water and dry up and wilt away. This is the 1st chapter of the article and the whole thing is at the link I posted above. Hope this helps you.

Dutch Elm Disease in Texas
by
David N. Appel
Professor of Plant Pathology and Microbiology
Texas A&M University
(Reprinted from “In the Shade,” Volume 32, No. 5, January 2009; The Newsletter of the
International Society of Arboriculture Texas Chapter.)
The vascular pathogen Ophiostoma novo-ulmi, causal agent of Dutch elm disease (DED),
has been known to occur in Texas for several decades. Outbreaks seem to occur
periodically in certain areas, including Lufkin, Waco, and the Ft. Worth/Dallas regions in
Texas. Most recently a large, relatively destructive outbreak has been active in the Flower
Mound area near Ft. Worth. Records in the Texas Plant Disease Diagnostic Laboratory
(TPDDL) in College Station show that there were two confirmed cases during 2005 in that
region. One of the confirmations was in an American elm (Ulmus americana), and the other
in a cedar elm (Ulmus crassifolia). There was another confirmation in an American elm this
past summer (2008). This current outbreak has gotten the attention of homeowners, urban
foresters and arborists, resulting in a great deal of discussion about how the situation should
be handled.

Hope this helps you,

ed

 

[rock]

It was collected in early spring. I have watched the top limbs lose their leaves, go dry and no green under the bark anymore. After determining the upper half is dry and dead,

Hey Travis,
collected trees sometimes die, its all about the after care. Agree with the Rock with and M, first clue you gave was the best and I bet you suspected that as well. You are locked into what ever soil you put it in, now you wait and see how it plays out.

good luck

ps. Interesting ...so many diagnoses from the photo of a stump end...LOL
BVF hit it in the head ...

 

[rockm]

Jeez, it's not DED. That disease, as noted in the article, is not all that common. It mentions occasional outbreaks. People always jump to the conclusion that whatever is wrong with an elm is DED. Agreed I was wrong to say Cedar elm is resistant. It isn't, but that seems to be a point of contention:
From the Texas A&M plant database:
"Although it is susceptible to Dutch Elm Disease, it appears to be less of a problem with it than it is with American Elm, U. americana, or Winged Elm, U. alata."
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/ornamentals/natives/ulmuscrassifolia.htm

Additionally, DED mostly affects larger elms, as the beetle that usually transmits the disease likes to hide under the bark of trees. The tree usually has to be big enough and tall enough to draw the beetle.

This tree was not really big enough or tall enough to be of much interest to the bark beetle. The spots on the interior of the trunk are possibly decades old. Whatever made them (and they could have been made by MANY things) the tree grew past it long ago. There are no spots near the exterior, living tissue.

The tree has just been collected. It's under stress. It's going to get die back. Doesn't mean its got a terminal disease. Assuming that could lead away from the real cause, which is probably a combination of stress collection and root issues.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Just laughing! No doubt you're right...but by the response, you'd think half of your family tree was wiped out by DED...
Ok, I'm done...back to work...

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Jeez, it's not DED. That disease, as noted in the article, is not all that common. It mentions occasional outbreaks. People always jump to the conclusion that whatever is wrong with an elm is DED. Agreed I was wrong to say Cedar elm is resistant. It isn't, but that seems to be a point of contention:
From the Texas A&M plant database:
"Although it is susceptible to Dutch Elm Disease, it appears to be less of a problem with it than it is with American Elm, U. americana, or Winged Elm, U. alata."
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/ornamentals/natives/ulmuscrassifolia.htm

Additionally, DED mostly affects larger elms, as the beetle that usually transmits the disease likes to hide under the bark of trees. The tree usually has to be big enough and tall enough to draw the beetle.

This tree was not really big enough or tall enough to be of much interest to the bark beetle. The spots on the interior of the trunk are possibly decades old. Whatever made them (and they could have been made by MANY things) the tree grew past it long ago. There are no spots near the exterior, living tissue.

The tree has just been collected. It's under stress. It's going to get die back. Doesn't mean its got a terminal disease. Assuming that could lead away from the real cause, which is probably a combination of stress collection and root issues.

Yikes! This sounds like Dutch panties in a wad disease...best to check for brown spots, and treat with a few nice lagers . Don't want it spreading...

 

[rockm]

Sorry, but the DED stuff is a pet peeve of mine. I can't count the times when it's brought up as the source of a problem with a bonsaied elm, at the expense of what is a more likely source...

 

[edprocoat]

Rockm, did not mean to peeve yer pet fer certain! I only mentioned it as my father in law lives just out of Fort Worth and he lost several american elms back around 2004 so he replaced them with the "resistant" cedar elm and lost them a few years later these were not Bonsai trees, although it seems the episodes of DED are very frequent in the Fort Worth area occuring at least every other year. He had just mentioned his neighbor lost two 3 year old cedar elm trees that he replaced again the last time my f-i-l replaced his, f-i-l decided to replace his with a different tree, I believe some type of drought resistant bur oak or red oak? I am not certain which he settled on, although its working well for him.

ed