Western larches

Tycoss

Chumono
Messages
884
Reaction score
1,929
Location
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
USDA Zone
3
IMG_1616.JPG IMG_1615.JPG IMG_1614.JPG
You are the opposite of me, in that you are after the conifers up till now. So, I'd recommend that you find a Water, White, or American Elm (all the same tree, different names) or go buy a Discovery Elm if you can find one, although you have to expect to pay $100.00 or more for a tree.

The Discovery Elm has a small leaf and they aren't (or shouldn't be) bud grafted. If it is bud grafted, don't buy it, because you can find ones that aren't. It's a Japanese Elm cultivar (Ulmus davidiana var. japonica 'Discovery'), so it has small leaves,

I don't know if you have Slippery Elm there, but I'd pass on the Siberian Elm if there aren't DEFINATELY Slippery Elm in the area. I suspect that the two hybridize, and may make a passible prospect, but no other Elm species can hybridize with a Water Elm, so IMHO, the Siberian Elm (a true Siberian Elm) is no good... at least you won't see one in my yard... but, I have an abundance of Water Elm to choose from, so I can afford to be picky.

And, IF you have Slippery Elm there, I'd by far choose one of them over a Siberian Elm anyway.

You try those two, and they will teach you a lot... the tricks you learn on them are effective on others, but the Elms are so forgiving.

Most of the rest have their own idiosyncrasies and vary a GREAT deal from one individual tree to another, here are a few rules to follow that might help in your hunt.

- always go looking for a Water or Slippery Elm.

- other tree species will always present themselves, but you'll overlook the Elms if you're looking at others. Elms are easy to find late in the fall because they don't prepare for winter like other tree species do... they keep growing until the first frost nips at the leaves, then they get fall colours... at this time, they will (or should be, or, are likely to be) the only deciduous trees with leaves on them.

- know what you're looking at... by this I mean, if you can't identify it because it's naked, flag it and come back later... you don't want some species. Poplars (drop branches and die without apparent reason), ash (compound leaves) and Manitoba Maples (long internodes and they will drop a major branch for no apparent reason) these are a few right off the top of my head.

- Paper Birch are challenging, mostly because they like wet roots... preferably wet roots with water constantly running through them, and they hate hot roots in the heat of the summer... I'm going to run a copper tubing coil under the roots of one of mine next summer and cycle water through it in Aug. Sept. see if that helps... and they are prone to disease, probably because they are stressed from hot roots.

- most others are worth a try if they don't have compound leaves, but I have a standing rule now that I won't take anything unless it shows tremendous potential right from the start. And then I flag it and come back a time or two before I do anything... oftentimes, I'll find a problem the second or third time that I look at it that I didn't see to begin with, and I don't want anything that I'll regret later.

- beware of hawthorns... one scratch in the eye by a thorn and you'll be blind in that eye for the rest of your life... use a great deal of care if you are going to take one of these.

- Russian Olives are bullet proof, but they have compound leaves. The kids would likely have fun with them... they have thorns as well, but grow like mad!

- Saskatoons for literati style, but I'm not into leggy bonsai, so I'm still on the hunt for a great one.

- Choke Cherry if you can find a great one... but they are illusive and very rare to find a good one, let alone a great one. I have one flagged now "in development in the field", and there are others there that I intend on trying to fuse three together for great nebari and trunk thickness.

- Alder Berry (same as above)

- Wild Plums... difficult to find, protected (like blackberries) by bears when in fruit, a bitch to crawl through to find a good one, but an interesting and fun tree to work on... challenging material. A scratch from a plum will irritate me for weeks afterwards... but I'm allergic to trees. Also have some "in field development"

* Recommend... get an Elm or two, (especially for the kids) leave the rest be until you know what you're after (identification and structure wise) Water Elms can be taken now through spring; but spring is probably best.

For me, I want 5 good, to great trees before retirement. I want 2 good/great trees when I'm 70-75, and I want one great tree when I'm 80-82 and the only wish I have after that is that I want to die before it does.

... sorry for the long post, but I may disappear soon (next couple of days), for some time... good luck on the hunt.
My only elm is this little guy. Shohin in process. Not sure what side is the front, and still has lots of work to go.
 

Arcto

Chumono
Messages
863
Reaction score
1,446
Location
PNW
@wireme, my Western Larches had a so so year. Recovery and some growth, but nowhere near as vigorous as the American Larch in the same growing bed. The previous season, they had their roots worked on a lot. So hoping for better growth next season. I've located some Westerns in the forest here. Not sure if there will be a spring collection as the local agencies don't rush to put out collecting permits early.
 

wireme

Masterpiece
Messages
3,671
Reaction score
8,238
Location
Kootenays, British Columbia
USDA Zone
3
View attachment 123387 View attachment 123389 View attachment 123390 View attachment 123388 Wireme, I noticed you have a conk as your avatar I've been etching some of those I'd found . Might make good accents if I ever have any show worthy trees.

Hey, nice those are cool! Artist conk/ ganoderma appalantum? Some people say those are as good as reishi for medicinal use.
The one in my avatar is Agarikon or laricifomes officinalis. It is only found on old growth trees. Usually Douglas fir in the PNW and on old western larch around here. I found one on an ancient ponderosa pine too, very unusual.
A bit about Agarikon in these links, I watched that Ted med show a few years ago then found our first Agarikon within the same week, it was exciting.


http://www.fungi.com/blog/items/the-search-for-agarikon.html
 
Last edited:

Tycoss

Chumono
Messages
884
Reaction score
1,929
Location
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
USDA Zone
3
Hey, nice those are cool! Artist conk/ ganoderma appalantum? Some people say those are as good as reishi for medicinal use.
The one in my avatar is Agarikon or laricifomes officinalis. It is only found on old growth trees. Usually Douglas fir in the PNW and on old western larch around here. I found one on an ancient ponderosa pine too, very unusual.
A bit about Agarikon in these links, I watched that Ted med show a few years ago then found our first Agarikon within the same week, it was exciting.


http://www.fungi.com/blog/items/the-search-for-agarikon.html
Yep, they are artist conks, found on old trembling aspen. Have yet to see the species you have pictured. Lots of unusual fungus species I found near these.
 

Random User

Guest
Messages
1,313
Reaction score
1,168
@Tycoss

I collected the one pine that I spoke of earlier... the others were higher on a ridge and were already frozen in.

After getting it home and potting it up, it's apparent that it has been hit a number of times over the years... anyway, for the few conifers that I do have, I always tried to monitor water needs through the late fall and early spring... but last night, I came up with the "lazy man's plan" of freezing 2-3" of water in the bottom of a 5 gallon plastic bucket... this morning, I flipped the pail over and knocked the ice out, then placed the chunks of ice in the top of the substrate around my conifers... I'm thinking, if it gets warm enough to thaw the ice, the trees "might" get to the point of needing a little drink... it might work better in your area with the chinooks that blow through on occasion... I'm thinking the ice should be a better indicator of the true temps where the trees are, instead of recorded temps.
 

wireme

Masterpiece
Messages
3,671
Reaction score
8,238
Location
Kootenays, British Columbia
USDA Zone
3
Nice bark, movement and decent taper

Yeah, thanks, it's got everything it needs doesn't it. I haven't done a thing to it yet besides repot and just one single pruning cut. It is a bit shorter now and that happened automatically over winter, parked it too close to the roof! Good spot to break though, would have cut it around there anyways.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

The Professor
Messages
11,337
Reaction score
23,253
Location
on the IL-WI border, a mile from ''da Lake''
USDA Zone
5b
@wireme - It just keeps getting better. I really like the bark.

I have not had much luck with larch, mostly because I would do things like repot too late in spring, and use weird potting mixes. Neglect was another reason I have not done well. I'm max'ed out on number of trees I can handle, added my last larch without being able to keep track of the timing required to keep it happy. Once I down size my collection some, I try again.
 

Vance Wood

Lord Mugo
Messages
14,002
Reaction score
16,911
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
5-6
Larch like a lot of water, at least the Eastern Larch does. Water like a Spruce. Larch also do better in sandy soils but they them seem to do well with Pine bark mulch added in the mix.
 

Ry2Tree2

Yamadori
Messages
76
Reaction score
86
Location
Columbus, Ohio
USDA Zone
6a
I do hope some more larix occidentalis pop up here though, a few guys showed some starters on this thread, how are they doing?

I was hoping to see some with development and history behind them. I'm starting to wonder if there are any occidentalis established and developed to the point of show readiness at all out there.
I've spotted a few more for spring time digging next year.


Any further updates on the new larches you were going to dig up? This month I am on scouting in the east cascades for good western and alpine larch. What sort of terrain did you look for where you found your stunted ones? They have great bark so they must already have some age to them.

I'm going to bring them back to Seattle and see how they do. Several dryland conifers survive here decently despite the fundamental difference in climate between here and east of the cascades. I think Dan Robinson has some western larches that he grew from seed, but as far as I know he has not collected any.
 

wireme

Masterpiece
Messages
3,671
Reaction score
8,238
Location
Kootenays, British Columbia
USDA Zone
3
Any further updates on the new larches you were going to dig up? This month I am on scouting in the east cascades for good western and alpine larch. What sort of terrain did you look for where you found your stunted ones? They have great bark so they must already have some age to them.

I'm going to bring them back to Seattle and see how they do. Several dryland conifers survive here decently despite the fundamental difference in climate between here and east of the cascades. I think Dan Robinson has some western larches that he grew from seed, but as far as I know he has not collected any.

Hi Ryan.
Not much to report on new collections. Last couple years I've been unable to get out collecting much at all unfortunately.

These ones do have some age to them maybe 30-40yrs old at a guess. The place I found them looks to have burnt off about 60 years ago, nothing older than that there. Normally I wouldn't tree hunt in a spot where the forest is so young but there's a great huckleberry patch there!
It was a spot full of thinly spaced tall scrawny lodgepole with a few larch.
Undulating rocky outcrops (some kind of metamorphosed sedimentary stone, quartzitish stuff). Soil pockets of shallow sandy clay mixed with chunky square stones.

I still haven't spent a ton of time in spots where killer western larch would be more likely but enough to see that for some reason small stunted trees western larch are hard to find. I know very well the type of terrain to look in..
I have found a few better than these but not in season with a shovel in hand. Great ones are out there I am sure but hard to find.

Good luck, hope you find some and successfully collect them. I would think western larch could be kept outside of their range ok. Alpine Larch I think may be sensitive to change of altitude and might be very finicky and difficult to keep healthy at low elevations but that's only a feeling I have and I would sure love for someone to prove me wrong. I really should try, heaps of them here not far away and really really top notch material too.

I'd like to see Dans westerns and hear more about them, age since planting etc sometime if the opportunity comes up for you.

I will actually be out in some rocky bluffs inhabited by big old growth western larch on my next days off. Found some big dead ones on the ground for firewood the other day and I'm on a mission. Maybe I will see a little tree, I'll have some pics of big veterans in full colour for sure.
 

Ry2Tree2

Yamadori
Messages
76
Reaction score
86
Location
Columbus, Ohio
USDA Zone
6a
I would love to live closer to the mountains to be able to scout for trees more often. Maybe one day in the distant future I will be able to afford a vacation cabin out there haha.

One concern I have with the alpine larch is that in some places it is already snowing again in the cascades. I saw photos of someone's hike recently where the larches are losing their needles and also covered in 4 inches of snow already haha. I worry if I collect one that has shed needles and bring it to lower elevation, it might try to pop early or behave strangely since we are still in the 50s or sometimes the 60s for the rest of the month.
 

Tycoss

Chumono
Messages
884
Reaction score
1,929
Location
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
USDA Zone
3
I worry about that too with our alpine larch. If one could find a way to moderate the shock of the temperature change, I think they would be a great species to work with.
 

Ry2Tree2

Yamadori
Messages
76
Reaction score
86
Location
Columbus, Ohio
USDA Zone
6a
I worry about that too with our alpine larch. If one could find a way to moderate the shock of the temperature change, I think they would be a great species to work with.

One solution might be to find a friend with a cabin in the mountains for the first year after collection if collecting in fall. If collecting in spring, it shouldn't be a problem.
 

sdavis

Mame
Messages
215
Reaction score
257
Location
Central Oregon
USDA Zone
4
I worry about that too with our alpine larch. If one could find a way to moderate the shock of the temperature change, I think they would be a great species to work with.

The favorite larch in my collection is a sub-alpine larch......Larix lyalli. Great bark, hardy, handles the spring frosts of the high desert well.
 
Top Bottom