Watering Junipers in CA

[goosetown]

Just wanted to make sure I'm covering my bases here re: watering - less how much and when and more on the side of purification.

What I've been doing thus far, as we obviously don't get a ton of rain in Southern California, is using tap water for my bonsai. However, I never go STRAIGHT from the tap; rather, I fill my watering can the night before, allow it to sit on the porch so that some of the chemicals can evaporate overnight. My trees are healthy and doing well, but I was curious if I could be doing more.

For those of you in Southern California especially, is there anything extra you're doing in watering? I've talked to a couple people who put their water through a Brita filter before watering, and even one guy who buys special tablets to purify his water before watering.

Anyone have any specific tips, or am I doing enough right now?

 

[yenling83]

Hey Goosetown

If your trees are really healthy then your water is probably okay. However improving water quality can never hurt-well actually it can-you must add certain things back into it at a point. Water Quality can really vary from city to city and even house to house. I live on the Central Coast of CA and found we have very hard water. I had white calcium build up on the trees and pots. I measured the PPM and it was like 350. I eventually got a Reverse Osmosis system to filter it and have seen good results my PPM now is about 40. I think the water may have actually improved the health and look of my deciduous more than conifer. But I defiantly see a difference in both. My RO system produces good water which I put into a large trash can, then I pump it out and into my hose. Bad part is it wastes a lot of water.

 

[Bill S]

Do a simple ph test, that will tell you if you have issues that need to be addressed.

 

[Eric Schrader]

I live in SoCal and I can say for sure that the water could be a lot better. Here are some things to think about:

1. Some plants are more tolerant of different water chemistry than others. CA junipers and most other junipers and black pines seem to grow fine on even bad tap water provided that you give them enough fertilizer.

2. The things that make your water good or bad are the pH which affects the uptake of various nutrients and the concentration of dissolved salts such as Sodium, Calcium, Magnesium, Boron etc. You should be able to find a water quality report for your city (the state requires that they publish it.) The caveat is that they get to publish an average - and I believe that most of SoCal has much better water in winter than in summer. Here is a link to the one for where I live:

http://www.toaks.org/government/depts/public_works/water/water_quality.asp

3. Letting the water sit will not greatly reduce anything but dissolved chlorine and since many cities use chloramine now specifically because of this you might not be getting very far.

4. The principle bad guy in tap water is sodium. Excess calcium can lock out other nutrients but in itself is not bad for plants. Sodium is basically poison to plants, it blocks uptake of potassium which is one of the major nutrients needed. My city water has 55ppm sodium which is almost 3 times the toxicity threshold for most plants. If your city water has more than 20ppm you should be concerned.

5. check out this article about nutrients etc in marijuana - the principles are equally well applied to any plant in a container:

http://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/216537-self-diagnose-your-plants.html

6. A Brita filter will remove the chlorine or Chloramine which is probably not a bad idea but does not have any effect on dissolved salts.

7. There's no such thing as a tablet that will "purify" water. Iodine tablets can kill microorganisms and are used for emergency drinking water but nothing like this will remove the salts. Adding excess of some salts can reduce uptake of other salts in plants but this is not the best idea.

My tapwater starts at about 250ppm. I use a reverse osmosis system to remove everything from it including all the dissolved salts (down to 10ppm) and then use CalMag to add back the calcium, magnesium and iron. I test the pH and adjust using phosphoric acid ("pH down" at a hydroponics store) to lower it to the 6.0-7.0 range - city tap water is usually 7.9-8.2 range. I then add kelp extract for other micronutrients that the RO removes and then fertilize on top of that like most other bonsai growers. Sometimes I think I'm crazy to do all this but my plants grow and thrive, they don't just survive.

 

[milehigh_7]

Here in Vegas where the water is basically a saturated solution of calcium and magnesium, I use miracle gro acidic formula when I feed and of course I also feed with humic acid. I also flush the pots daily as most of mine are still in pond basket/screen side pots/ colanders. This seems to work pretty good so far.

 

[goosetown]

This is more than I could have possibly hoped for. Thanks a ton for all the time and effort this took - it's greatly appreciated.

This reverse-osmosis system that you use - is it a very large thing, something that requires a backyard to contain, or is it relatively small, as in something that could be kept in a cupboard? Or somewhere in between? I ask because I currently live in an apartment and don't have nearly as much outdoor space as I'd like, but I have plenty of room inside.

Thanks again!

I live in SoCal and I can say for sure that the water could be a lot better. Here are some things to think about:

1. Some plants are more tolerant of different water chemistry than others. CA junipers and most other junipers and black pines seem to grow fine on even bad tap water provided that you give them enough fertilizer.

2. The things that make your water good or bad are the pH which affects the uptake of various nutrients and the concentration of dissolved salts such as Sodium, Calcium, Magnesium, Boron etc. You should be able to find a water quality report for your city (the state requires that they publish it.) The caveat is that they get to publish an average - and I believe that most of SoCal has much better water in winter than in summer. Here is a link to the one for where I live:

http://www.toaks.org/government/depts/public_works/water/water_quality.asp

3. Letting the water sit will not greatly reduce anything but dissolved chlorine and since many cities use chloramine now specifically because of this you might not be getting very far.

4. The principle bad guy in tap water is sodium. Excess calcium can lock out other nutrients but in itself is not bad for plants. Sodium is basically poison to plants, it blocks uptake of potassium which is one of the major nutrients needed. My city water has 55ppm sodium which is almost 3 times the toxicity threshold for most plants. If your city water has more than 20ppm you should be concerned.

5. check out this article about nutrients etc in marijuana - the principles are equally well applied to any plant in a container:

http://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/216537-self-diagnose-your-plants.html

6. A Brita filter will remove the chlorine or Chloramine which is probably not a bad idea but does not have any effect on dissolved salts.

7. There's no such thing as a tablet that will "purify" water. Iodine tablets can kill microorganisms and are used for emergency drinking water but nothing like this will remove the salts. Adding excess of some salts can reduce uptake of other salts in plants but this is not the best idea.

My tapwater starts at about 250ppm. I use a reverse osmosis system to remove everything from it including all the dissolved salts (down to 10ppm) and then use CalMag to add back the calcium, magnesium and iron. I test the pH and adjust using phosphoric acid ("pH down" at a hydroponics store) to lower it to the 6.0-7.0 range - city tap water is usually 7.9-8.2 range. I then add kelp extract for other micronutrients that the RO removes and then fertilize on top of that like most other bonsai growers. Sometimes I think I'm crazy to do all this but my plants grow and thrive, they don't just survive.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

You can buy an excellent RO system that will easily fit under your sink for $200 or less. STAY AWAY from RO systems sold at Home Depot / Lowes, and go with a direct supplier. Typically, your use is only limited by the size of your reservoir - a simple small pressure tank under your sink is adequate to fill up a pitcher at a time. You can purchase larger reservoirs (for example, barrel with a float switch) for not a lot of money. I recommend the following supplier for excellent product, good price, and superb customer service; I have been using them for over a decade. They tend to market toward ultra-clean water enthusiasts (reef aquarium keepers) but they sell all kinds of systems for all kinds of needs. I use them for my drinking water systems and they are excellent. Call them up, explain your needs, and they will recommend a product for you.

Air Water Ice

 

[goosetown]

Wonderful! Thanks a ton for the tip - will absolutely give them a shout.

You can buy an excellent RO system that will easily fit under your sink for $200 or less. STAY AWAY from RO systems sold at Home Depot / Lowes, and go with a direct supplier. Typically, your use is only limited by the size of your reservoir - a simple small pressure tank under your sink is adequate to fill up a pitcher at a time. You can purchase larger reservoirs (for example, barrel with a float switch) for not a lot of money. I recommend this supplier for excellent product, good price, and superb customer service; I have been using them for over a decade. They tend to market toward ultra-clean water enthusiasts (reef aquarium keepers) but they sell all kinds of systems for all kinds of needs. I use them for my drinking water systems and they are excellent. Call them up, explain your needs, and they will recommend a product for you.

Air Water Ice

 

[Bonsai Nut]

By the way, Air Water Ice also does free water tests. Send them a water sample and they will test it "for everything" as they say on their site. I have a TDS meter and my water out of the tap registers 600+ PPM dissolved solids (in Orange County). After my RO/DI filter it measures zero. I've been very pleased.

 

[Eric Schrader]

The RO that I bought is from a company called Growonix, the unit is intended for plant/garden use so it doesn't remove all the salts but has a lower waste water ratio. 10ppm output is effectively zero for a plant. The under sink units can have a 10:1 waste ratio where mine has a 2:1 waste ratio and allows me to fill a 55 gallon barrel in a few hours. You can find a good array of options at a hydroponics store starting around $200 for a 100 gallon per day unit.

B-nut - can you even drink the 600ppm water? That sounds really bad!