Video Review

[Anthony]

Hee hee, Sifu,

what the Chinese let the Japanese know.

Now what will the Chinese let the Americans know ?
Stay tuned.
Mischievously Anthony

 

[barrosinc]

Or perhaps the idea of what is expected from a Demo should change.

I concur. It should 4 initial styling (cut back wire main branches, angle choice, maybe repot) and do 4 yearly updates on the same trees instead of 1 instant bonsai.

 

[chicago1980]

I concur. It should 4 initial styling (cut back wire main branches, angle choice, maybe repot) and do 4 yearly updates on the same trees instead of 1 instant bonsai.

This sounds like a yearly study group.

 

[barrosinc]

one would expect masters to do way better though... but yeah sounds like demos should be yearly study groups.
We once had a master (or at least studied a long time over there) from japan to come over... so many people buying junipers and got styled by him, 17 out of 20 died during the season.

 

[chicago1980]

one would expect masters to do way better though... but yeah sounds like demos should be yearly study groups.
We once had a master (or at least studied a long time over there) from japan to come over... so many people buying junipers and got styled by him, 17 out of 20 died during the season.

Really? Mauro come to Chicago and styles dozens of trees and not one has died. He is very particular on which tree he styles and if they are healthy enough to be worked on. Jeff the owner of hidden gardens provides excellent after care for these trees also.

 

[Adair M]

one would expect masters to do way better though... but yeah sounds like demos should be yearly study groups.
We once had a master (or at least studied a long time over there) from japan to come over... so many people buying junipers and got styled by him, 17 out of 20 died during the season.

Yes, probably too much too fast. Often it will be a cutback, wire and style, AND a repot with drastic root reduction all at once!

And, it could be that the trees weren’t as strong as the trees he was used to in Japan. So the things he could with them there was too much for your local trees.

 

[Adair M]

Hee hee, Sifu,

what the Chinese let the Japanese know.

Now what will the Chinese let the Americans know ?
Stay tuned.
Mischievously Anthony

Yes, the Chinese started bonsai. Then the Japanese, as they often do, took it, copied it, and raised it to another level, with their acute attention to detail.

 

[River's Edge]

In light of the progress made in North American Bonsai over the past twenty years, why are demo's popular? They are the antithesis of proper Bonsai practice. How many one day workshops result in dead trees? Is this what aspiring Bonsai practitioners should be taught? I think the primary value one can take from a workshop is an insight into how the teacher would develop a plan for that tree. Not, how far along can the plan be advanced in one day or one weekend. That aspect has nothing to do with the true nature and purpose of Bonsai.
Entertainment value? Fundraising? These are the reasons i hear most often.
I thought Kathy's approach was appropriate for the Tree's stage of development. It was encouraging to see that less was done at one time with a longer view.

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

Demo material is often rushed to fit the expectations of the public. Only strong demonstrators can explain why further styling is no option, leaving people with less understanding of the subsequent steps behind (unfortunately). Ideally you use material after it first or second styling, let it overgrow and then tada, you have a great tree after the demo. A demo is nice but has to be put in the context of a demo. This demo is a good first styling with adequate explanation, making it a perfect demo tree for over 2 years.

 

[Adair M]

In light of the progress made in North American Bonsai over the past twenty years, why are demo's popular? They are the antithesis of proper Bonsai practice. How many one day workshops result in dead trees? Is this what aspiring Bonsai practitioners should be taught? I think the primary value one can take from a workshop is an insight into how the teacher would develop a plan for that tree. Not, how far along can the plan be advanced in one day or one weekend. That aspect has nothing to do with the true nature and purpose of Bonsai.
Entertainment value? Fundraising? These are the reasons i hear most often.
I thought Kathy's approach was appropriate for the Tree's stage of development. It was encouraging to see that less was done at one time with a longer view.

It’s true. Demos like what Kathy did are rare in Japan. Only done at conventions where a lot of foreigners will be attending! And that’s what the foreigners are expecting!

The demos are really more entertainment than educational. It’s fun to hear the stories some of the headliners tell. That said, I usually don’t watch the demos, it’s the same thing over and over.

The one Tyler did was different because of the quality of the material.

 

[Anthony]

Oh Sifu,

if you only understood that the Chinese work is mostly Intellectual, and not horticulture.
Sadly Anthony {:-{ tears.

 

[barrosinc]

Yes, probably too much too fast. Often it will be a cutback, wire and style, AND a repot with drastic root reduction all at once!

And, it could be that the trees weren’t as strong as the trees he was used to in Japan. So the things he could with them there was too much for your local trees.

Most definitely. But people wanted the big bends and twists.

 

[Adair M]

Oh Sifu,

if you only understood that the Chinese work is mostly Intellectual, and not horticulture.
Sadly Anthony {:-{ tears.

Anthony, I have no idea what you are trying to say.

 

[Anthony]

Sifu,

since you were so kind to share your knowledge with me, I have
tried to share with you the Chinese ideas on Bonsai/Penjing.

The Chinese evolved Bonsai to an intellectual pursuit.
It is more than trying to make a tree look like a tree.
But you have often said reading of books is not for you.

So I am afraid Bonsai will remain, a gardener's practice.
Not to fuss, you are still Sifu.
I will not mention any of this again.
Humbly,
Anthony

 

[Nybonsai12]

one would expect masters to do way better though... but yeah sounds like demos should be yearly study groups.
We once had a master (or at least studied a long time over there) from japan to come over... so many people buying junipers and got styled by him, 17 out of 20 died during the season.

I can do that. I shall now be referred to as bonsai Master NYbonsai12

 

[Vance Wood]

Bet nobody expected this to go here, some substantive discussion without name calling, threats, and hurt feelings. The fact remains that almost everybody has an opinion and not all of them are the same or even similar.

 

[Adair M]

Sifu,

since you were so kind to share your knowledge with me, I have
tried to share with you the Chinese ideas on Bonsai/Penjing.

The Chinese evolved Bonsai to an intellectual pursuit.
It is more than trying to make a tree look like a tree.
But you have often said reading of books is not for you.

So I am afraid Bonsai will remain, a gardener's practice.
Not to fuss, you are still Sifu.
I will not mention any of this again.
Humbly,
Anthony

Anthony, I used to read everything I could about bonsai. I have an extensive library on bonsai. Books, English language magazines, and Japanese magazines I cannot read, but the pictures are excellent.

But there’s only so much you can learn from seeing 2D pictures. Or even videos. How can you learn to refine if you’ve never really seen a refined tree up close and personal? How do you even know what “refined” is? Without seeing an example of the goal you have set, how do you know how to get there? Or if you have reached it?

Again, the whole idea of apprenticeships is to pass the knowledge. Yes, part of an apprenticeship s doing grunt work, but it is the master nurturing others showing proven techniques, pointing out mistakes and problem areas, and working out solutions. This direct feedback isn’t available via books, and video. Plus, as I have often said, books and videos are outdated as soon as they're Published.

 

[Adair M]

This sounds like a yearly study group.

Actually, Study Groups should meet several times during the year. You do different things to trees depending on the species AND time of year.

 

[sorce]

This video won't get outdated....

Because Kathy Talks and teaches in a way that can't be dated.

More feelings than Bonsai.

That's why I like her.

She's easy to understand.
And funny.

Sorce

 

[Adair M]

This video won't get outdated....

Because Kathy Talks and teaches in a way that can't be dated.

More feelings than Bonsai.

That's why I like her.

She's easy to understand.
And funny.

Sorce

I would agree with you, Sorce. She tries to find the best feature of each tree, and highlight it.