Unknown elm

Discussion in 'Elms' started by Adler, Mar 18, 2017.

  1. Adler

    Adler Sapling

    Messages:
    33
    Hello a friend gave me this elm(still not 100% sure if an elm) in a semi cascade style and said he dug it up here in Missouri

    Should I leave it as it is or take the wiring off

    And if anyone could give me a positive id I would be very grateful

    Thanks for your help
     

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  3. AZbonsai

    AZbonsai Mame

    Messages:
    205
    Location:
    AZ
    Hey Adler looks like an elm to me. I collected these at my school. We call them evergreen elms out here...even though they lose there leaves. 20170318_063711_001-2268x3024.jpg
     
  4. Adler

    Adler Sapling

    Messages:
    33
    OK thanks my friend called it a piss elm

    Might do some research on the actual type
     
  5. AZbonsai

    AZbonsai Mame

    Messages:
    205
    Location:
    AZ
    Chinese elm would be a good place to start.
     
  6. Adler

    Adler Sapling

    Messages:
    33
    Chinese elm don't grow naturally in Missouri tho

    I can take a pic of the mother tree

    Sry it's not a good pic . . . Bad lighting

    The mother tree has to be at least 40-50 feet tall
     

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  7. AZbonsai

    AZbonsai Mame

    Messages:
    205
    Location:
    AZ
    Hard to tell with that picture. They do get very tall.
     
  8. sorce

    sorce Nonsense Rascal

    Messages:
    13,667
    Location:
    Berwyn, Il
    You probly could get Chinese Elm there.

    Siberian Elm, English, hybrids of anything.

    Best to look into what your area planted anew after Dutch Elm Disease.

    Or just do like I do....

    Big leaf ones..
    Middle sized leafish ones,
    Small leafed ones....

    Then the "leaves stay in tree and brown all winter" ones...which are in fact Hops Hornbeam or Oyster Vagina!

    Then you got them realm small lead ones...
    The ones sold for Bonsai...
    While simultaneously being the worst Elm for Bonsai IMO.

    Screw those!

    Once you know the leaf size....
    Figure you can reduce it by about 50-75%.

    And plan your tree to that size.

    Which for this one, probly means a good 3-10 years of more or less unrestricted growth depending on the growing situation.

    Something tells me your friend might know where some bigger "piss" elms are, and might not mind you removing them.

    Sorce
     
  9. M. Frary

    M. Frary Bonsai Godzilla

    Messages:
    9,195
    Location:
    Mio Michigan
    Tree trimmers name for Siberian elm. Also peeler elm.
    They can smell like piss when trimmed and if no relief cut is made at the bottom of the branch the bark peels off all the way to the ground if a clean cut isn't made.
    I would call this one a rainbow elm because of the shape it's been bent into.
    I wouldn't try for a cascade of any sort. These trees make great informal uprights. Because they like to grow upright.
    You will be fighting to keep it cascading. And it will need some growing out and chopping down to induce taper or it will just be a bent over tube. I would stand it back up. Bend it down low,wait for it to grow fat then chop it in order to regrow the next section.
     
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  10. Adler

    Adler Sapling

    Messages:
    33
    Thank you all for the advice

    Does anyone have an elm that they wouldn't mind posting a picture of thanks
     
  11. Adler

    Adler Sapling

    Messages:
    33
    Would it die if I cut off say 1/3 of the top so I can kinda restart or should I let it grow till next year like my cedar and go from there
     
  12. M. Frary

    M. Frary Bonsai Godzilla

    Messages:
    9,195
    Location:
    Mio Michigan
    Have you seen yatsabusa up close.
    And I will have another seiju. I know a place that says they have a large one. I think I saw it 3 years ago at our club show. I almost bought it but am glad I didn't because it would have been vole food.
    I would just let it grow freely this year to thicken up some.
    And watch that wire if you leave it on. There things grow fast and the wire will become embedded into the bark,scarring it.
    Like a couple three weeks.
     
  13. Adler

    Adler Sapling

    Messages:
    33
    Thanks for the help I'll probably take the wire off and let it grow a year

    I'm glad I joined. I've learned more about bonsai in 1 day here then trying on my own for a while

    Would still love to see elm pics of any kind for ideas

    Thanks
     
    M. Frary likes this.
  14. SKBonsaiGuy

    SKBonsaiGuy Omono

    Messages:
    1,007
    In zone 3, they grow like vertical whips until they are well over 10' tall and don't tend to begin to show "elm form" until they are roughly 6" at the base... sometimes larger (unless it's a Siberian Elm which can take a multitudes of shapes when they are smaller). It will NOT thicken up at the base unless you let it grow unprovoked, so it depends on what form you want the tree to take.
     
  15. M. Frary

    M. Frary Bonsai Godzilla

    Messages:
    9,195
    Location:
    Mio Michigan
    Oops! Forgot.
    Here is a Siberian elm I've never posted here before because it's kind of ugly.
    You can see where I cut it down the first time. And the second time.
    I cut it down to a stump then dug it up in one day. Actually in about 5 minutes.
    This is almost 4 years from a bare stump. 20170125_211615.jpg I ground layered about 3 inches off of the bottom last year to fix damage from voles eating the bark off.
    It's 2 inches in diameter.
     
  16. M. Frary

    M. Frary Bonsai Godzilla

    Messages:
    9,195
    Location:
    Mio Michigan
    Yatsabusa elm. Small leaves and will develop a real corky bark. 20160904_210814.jpg
     
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  17. M. Frary

    M. Frary Bonsai Godzilla

    Messages:
    9,195
    Location:
    Mio Michigan
    American elm. 20160904_193321.jpg
     
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  18. M. Frary

    M. Frary Bonsai Godzilla

    Messages:
    9,195
    Location:
    Mio Michigan
    I have one more. Seiju elm. Lost it last winter to voles. Second smallest leaves on an elm. IMG952013110395135511_1.jpg
     
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  19. Adler

    Adler Sapling

    Messages:
    33
    Stupid voles
    Thanks for the pictures
    As soon as I get home the wire it going off
    Can wait till I get to family owned 60 acres hoping to get some new trees
     
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  20. Adler

    Adler Sapling

    Messages:
    33
    Well didn't find any good tree . . . Just 4 3inch cedars
     
  21. M. Frary

    M. Frary Bonsai Godzilla

    Messages:
    9,195
    Location:
    Mio Michigan
    Life is full of ups and downs.
    It's how you deal with the downs the main thing.
    If something knocks you down you get back up,look it square in the eye and say let's try that again.
     
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