Trident Maple trunk chop

[Jacob Prestridge]

This is a field grown Trident and I need some opinions on how to cut. In the pictures below I posted the two different options, I have in developing a new leader. From the nabari and the limb structure, there is only one front that can be used. I have root grafted from the large root on the left to put a root in the back. Once the graft takes I will then remove the unsightly large root.
My question comes as in between both uprites is a nice limb coming up that could be a nice leader. Should I cut back to this and grow it from there?
It doesn't look rite to me cutting and the leader comes forward not out to the side. Thoughts!

 

[Gabler]

That's tough material. I'd probably chop it a little above the fork and develop it into a sort of a broom. It also needs work on the nebari, as you pointed out.

 

[bwaynef]

I'd likely chop the trunk further down than you show. Looks like there's a crevice, a hole, or a fork where the left branch joins/separates with the trunk. Remove the trunk on the left and cut back the right branch about where the wire is, or maybe lower. (Probably lower, but it'd be easier to see where with the trunk removed.) This wouldn't make a sumo, but a MUCH more compact, powerful tree.

 

[SeanS]

There seems to be inverse taper where the trunk forks so using anything around that area to build the rest of the trunk will leave you with swelling in that area.

 

[Jacob Prestridge]

I'm going to air layer the top two before I chop this down. I can't see wasting and not getting 2 more trees out of this. Not sure about the broom style when cutting. Taking out the larger side, would still leave me with at least a 10" trunk. I could definitely get a more compact tree with good taper over time. And I could get rid of the separation between the two. Thank you for that, I guess I wasn't seeing that as I should.

 

[Shibui]

Remove the trunk on the left and cut back the right branch about where the wire is, or maybe lower. (Probably lower, but it'd be easier to see where with the trunk removed.) This wouldn't make a sumo, but a MUCH more compact, powerful tree.

Correct about this making a compact, powerful tree but needs to be done slowly. If you chop that thick trunk that entire side below the chop is likely to die, including roots because the roots on that side suddenly have no branches to support and feed them. Cutting back a bit at a time over 2-3 years seems to allow the sap flows from the roots to realign to feed branches on the live side which helps prevent such die back.
This plan will almost certainly take many years to come to fruition. A scar that big may never heal over, given you'll be restricting growth in a container to help develop better ramification on the new branching.
There's nothing quick about converting such large trees into bonsai. Growing the thick trunk is the easy and quickest bit of developing a bonsai. The next part - developing taper, branching and ramification is the bit that takes time and effort.

 

[Jacob Prestridge]

Correct about this making a compact, powerful tree but needs to be done slowly. If you chop that thick trunk that entire side below the chop is likely to die, including roots because the roots on that side suddenly have no branches to support and feed them. Cutting back a bit at a time over 2-3 years seems to allow the sap flows from the roots to realign to feed branches on the live side which helps prevent such die back.
This plan will almost certainly take many years to come to fruition. A scar that big may never heal over, given you'll be restricting growth in a container to help develop better ramification on the new branching.
There's nothing quick about converting such large trees into bonsai. Growing the thick trunk is the easy and quickest bit of developing a bonsai. The next part - developing taper, branching and ramification is the bit that takes time and effort.

With that being said, should I be safe reducing it down leaving that tall half inch limb in the middle and the couple of other lower limbs? I do not want to kill the tree and or any roots. And after a couple of more years, maybe take it down the rest of the way? If I even do that at that point

 

[Shibui]

With that being said, should I be safe reducing it down leaving that tall half inch limb in the middle and the couple of other lower limbs? I do not want to kill the tree and or any roots. And after a couple of more years, maybe take it down the rest of the way? If I even do that at that point

Before we go any further with specific recommendations I'd need to know some history.
How long since it was dug from the grow beds?
Growth rates since potting?
You mention a root graft - Recently? a year ago? 2 years? (actually, I'm curious to know how you took a root from one side and grafted it at the back? That's not a technique I'm familiar with)
How well developed are the remaining roots?
Your location. Nothing in your initial post or in your profile. This world is a big place with very different growing conditions. Knowing where the tree is can help understand how it will respond and when is a suitable time to perform different techniques.

I can't guarantee anything, but there appears to be enough small branches at that upper level to keep all the roots satisfied after that initial chop stage. I would not go further until the roots have recovered from the initial reduction and restrict any branches on the side to be chopped for a year or 2 to encourage new sap path to the side you plan to keep before completing the chop.

 

[leatherback]

Odd how these two roots sit above the surface. I do not know where it came from and why it was planted like this, but it seems not productive.

If you want to chop and develop a new leader a much bigger growbox or better, full ground and 5-10 years will be required. So think before you act. That being said.. This might be something. The cuts will take a decade of strong growth to close over. And keep in mind th previous post.

 

[leatherback]

For consideration & comparison, this japanese maple required very similar strategies:

Thread 'Summer pruning and die-back'

May 19, 2020

Over the weekend I spent a bit of time getting rid of a major junction on one of my new maples. I received the feedback on fakebook straight away that the trunk would die-back to the roots after the work I did. I was thinking: The whole tree is now actively pushing sugars, nutrients and water around. So it will now respond quickly and start working on callus, rather then die-back. What are your thoughts?

• leatherback
• Replies: 39
• Forum: Maples

• 

 

[Jacob Prestridge]

Before we go any further with specific recommendations I'd need to know some history.
How long since it was dug from the grow beds?
Growth rates since potting?
You mention a root graft - Recently? a year ago? 2 years? (actually, I'm curious to know how you took a root from one side and grafted it at the back? That's not a technique I'm familiar with)
How well developed are the remaining roots?
Your location. Nothing in your initial post or in your profile. This world is a big place with very different growing conditions. Knowing where the tree is can help understand how it will respond and when is a suitable time to perform different techniques.

I can't guarantee anything, but there appears to be enough small branches at that upper level to keep all the roots satisfied after that initial chop stage. I would not go further until the roots have recovered from the initial reduction and restrict any branches on the side to be chopped for a year or 2 to encourage new sap path to the side you plan to keep before completing the chop.

It was dug up February of 2024, it was and has been a full bush of a tree until the other day when was defoliated. I purchased it from John Green bonsai. I'm planning on putting it back down into the ground to let it grow. I'm not planning on touching or doing anything to it until next year. I do not want to rush or cut back to fast whenever I do plan on doing so

 

[Jacob Prestridge]

The big root on the left that was so high up had several long thread roots coming off the end of it. I brought one around on the back side where there are no roots and cut back on the bark and cambiam layer just a little and stapled it into place with some sealant over it. I will let it take good before removing the large root

 

[Jacob Prestridge]

For consideration & comparison, this japanese maple required very similar strategies:

Thread 'Summer pruning and die-back'

May 19, 2020

Over the weekend I spent a bit of time getting rid of a major junction on one of my new maples. I received the feedback on fakebook straight away that the trunk would die-back to the roots after the work I did. I was thinking: The whole tree is now actively pushing sugars, nutrients and water around. So it will now respond quickly and start working on callus, rather then die-back. What are your thoughts?

• leatherback
• Replies: 39
• Forum: Maples

• 

Was this done

 

[Jacob Prestridge]

How did this turn out,Cutting back slowly like that?
That does make since cutting back to the point of allowing the tree to still push nourishment up and down with out shutting everything down completely. So If I air layered the top of the trunks and Once the air layer was ready and I removed the upper portion. The lower branching and the smaller upright Would keep the roots nourished until the tree was strong again. Then at that point cut back on last time to get the final look I want. Yes this is a 10-15 year progression with the healing involved, especially with a 5.5" trunk.
To answer you from earlier I am from Baton rouge Louisiana. Hot,humid,muggy! I just recently got the tree so I just started the graft on the root, now it only time for it to set and secure itself.