Trident Maple Forest
- Thread starter Rod
- Start date
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
What structural flaws have you identified?
I'm seeing several still but groups are a great way to get a result that's better than the sum of the individual trees.
Personally I would plan to take it apart and reassemble next spring. It can be way better than it is currently.
A few extra small trees would not hurt either.
I'm seeing several still but groups are a great way to get a result that's better than the sum of the individual trees.
Personally I would plan to take it apart and reassemble next spring. It can be way better than it is currently.
A few extra small trees would not hurt either.
pandacular
Masterpiece
Do you have a copy of Dave se Groot's classic handbook on design? He has a section on the layout of trees in a forest that is nearly mandatory reading before your next repot.
It has several branches growing out of the same spots in the upper canopy I’ve removed some but wasn’t sure I could remove all of them. It was neglected quite a few years. But I think it has promise.
I am planning to add at least 4 more trees to it. Getting them this year and adding them in the spring. You are right tree location could be better also.
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
One of the great things about groups is that they can be rearranged if things do not develop as expected. If branches or apex are heading in the wrong direction simply take the trunk out and turn it. Try moving branches from one side of a single tree to the other to improve the look.
I would prefer trunks a bit shorter. Trees rarely get shorter as they age. More usual they get taller so an already tall group will be way taller in years to come so I prefer to start shorter to allow for any future creep. This one is already pretty tall and skinny - possibly a result of the neglect you mention or maybe just not knowing. You may love that look and that's OK but at least have a look to see if there's anywhere you can shorten these trunks to start shorter and build up slowly.
Looks like a couple of the upper trunks grow in towards the other trees which is not really natural. Smaller trees generally grow out and away from older, taller neighbours. Consider turning trunks like that so the upper trunk grows out and away.
Trunk spacing is one of the hardest things to get in a group planting. We tend to be creatures of pattern so it is really difficult to stop planting things at even distance apart. In the photos these trunks appear to be fairly uniform in spacing. Just like trunk taper in single trunk bonsai we probably need to overemphasise spacing to make it look good in small scale. I try to have a couple of trunks almost touching and some further apart to show the random nature of the forest the group planting should represent. To do that you really need to concentrate to overcome the natural tendency to evenly space things. Once again, groups are easy to adjust when you find a need to. If you are happy with the even spaced park theme that's fine by me too.
Planting some trunks really close not only emphasises random spacing. Done well it also makes trunks visually thicker. Just plant a smaller trunk near a thicker one and turn them so that, from the front, you can't see the space between. That makes the 2 thinner trees appear to be a single slightly thicker trunk, at least near the ground where it is important.
The spots with several branches growing at the same spot is normal for maples after pruning but not natural and bound to create inverse taper in future. The best remedy I have found is to chop excess branches off completely. The close up shows an old pruning cut. Best move in those situations is to cut all the branches off with an angle cut to get rid of the bunch of branches and the flat stub in a single cut. Don't worry about cutting off branches. Usually you'll get more new buds and shoots after the trim and you can often select one that's much better than any of the existing clump. Short term pain for long term gain.
Good luck with renovating your group. Plenty of time to ponder options and collect resources between now and then.
I would prefer trunks a bit shorter. Trees rarely get shorter as they age. More usual they get taller so an already tall group will be way taller in years to come so I prefer to start shorter to allow for any future creep. This one is already pretty tall and skinny - possibly a result of the neglect you mention or maybe just not knowing. You may love that look and that's OK but at least have a look to see if there's anywhere you can shorten these trunks to start shorter and build up slowly.
Looks like a couple of the upper trunks grow in towards the other trees which is not really natural. Smaller trees generally grow out and away from older, taller neighbours. Consider turning trunks like that so the upper trunk grows out and away.
Trunk spacing is one of the hardest things to get in a group planting. We tend to be creatures of pattern so it is really difficult to stop planting things at even distance apart. In the photos these trunks appear to be fairly uniform in spacing. Just like trunk taper in single trunk bonsai we probably need to overemphasise spacing to make it look good in small scale. I try to have a couple of trunks almost touching and some further apart to show the random nature of the forest the group planting should represent. To do that you really need to concentrate to overcome the natural tendency to evenly space things. Once again, groups are easy to adjust when you find a need to. If you are happy with the even spaced park theme that's fine by me too.
Planting some trunks really close not only emphasises random spacing. Done well it also makes trunks visually thicker. Just plant a smaller trunk near a thicker one and turn them so that, from the front, you can't see the space between. That makes the 2 thinner trees appear to be a single slightly thicker trunk, at least near the ground where it is important.
The spots with several branches growing at the same spot is normal for maples after pruning but not natural and bound to create inverse taper in future. The best remedy I have found is to chop excess branches off completely. The close up shows an old pruning cut. Best move in those situations is to cut all the branches off with an angle cut to get rid of the bunch of branches and the flat stub in a single cut. Don't worry about cutting off branches. Usually you'll get more new buds and shoots after the trim and you can often select one that's much better than any of the existing clump. Short term pain for long term gain.
Good luck with renovating your group. Plenty of time to ponder options and collect resources between now and then.
bwaynef
Masterpiece
I'd suggest a wide and shallow pot to help present the image of a forest. A shallow pot will naturally work to improve the nebari of your trees. It also sort of disappears, leaving you to appreciate the trees. You can choose the shape. I like ovals and small to no lip. When you repot, take the time to rearrange as Shib mentioned above Then, reduce the mounding of the soil. Some mounding in a VERY shallow pot is ok, simply as a way to increase the soil volume, but too much risks creating a scenario where roots can't be sustained. (Hold a wet sponge flat. Then turn it so that the long side is vertical. There's more to it, but there's your quick visual.)
Thanks
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
As bwaynef noted, pots are important for forest bonsai. A flatter, lower profile pot that allows a good bit of negative space goes a VERY long way in creating a good composition. Grouping trees closer together and not spaced out evenly to fill up the pot's surface space helps introduce a lighter feeling to the planting.
Round pots are difficult to use for forests as they tend to eliminate a lot of open space around groups. Deep pots also tend to pull too much visually away from the trees.
All this is very subjective, but look at good and excellent forest bonsai and most use shallower, lower profile pots, rectangle or oval.
This is my first forest I’ve ordered 4 more trees for a total of 9. Not sure how big of an oval pot to order. Color even has me confused a little.
I was wondering, I’ve trimmed all the structural flaws from the forest. It’s growing very healthy, and have been pruning to develop secondary branches. When do I stop pruning to let the tree store up enough energy for winter? 
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
Trees have had leaves on all summer so have stored enough surplus to get through winter.
Stop pruning more to stop new shoots forming going into winter to allow current shoots to harden and get ready for fall.
Not sure of the timing where you are but probably around 6 weeks before real cold? Hope some locals will step in with better first hand experience.
Easier to see structural flaws when the leaves drop so let's have a look then.
Stop pruning more to stop new shoots forming going into winter to allow current shoots to harden and get ready for fall.
Not sure of the timing where you are but probably around 6 weeks before real cold? Hope some locals will step in with better first hand experience.
Easier to see structural flaws when the leaves drop so let's have a look then.
Nelis
Sapling
I started mine in one of these seed trays, I think it is 40cm x 30cm x 5cm a bit more grow space than in a shallow oval for the initial start. This Forrest was only started September 2022. Lot of growth still to come. Will probably plant into a proper bonsai pot in September 2024.
