Trick to getting japanese quince to backbud

[drew33998]

I have 3 quince. 2 are double red, one is a dragons blood the other texas scarlet. The third is a contorted white. I have searched the forumn and could only find one post about getti g them to ramify. They said a master in japan reccomended summer leaf pruning. I waited until the first flush turned semi woody and cut back to the lowest 2 buds. Didnt work. It just grew a nrw leader from the last bud. So i waited until the second flush turned semi wooded and leaf trimmed them. Anyone have any success with this method? Mine love to throw long shoots pretty much year round. Thanks

 

[drew33998]

April bloom of the dragons blood. The wife picked this one out a few years ago at Steves place north of Atl. So i refer to it as her tree.

 

[MichaelS]

The ones you are talking about (as in your pic) are Chinese flowering quince. Chaenomeles speciosa. The Japanese flowering Quince is Chaenomeles japonica. Their hybrid is Ch x superba.
Getting speciosa to ramify has been the bane of my existence for 30 years. I continue to try. Defoliation did not work for me. Although many buds appeared, only a few turned into branches. I have 2 thirty year old plants of speciosa and even now most branches have only 1 ramification. I have followed all the advice on pruning including waiting for the new growth to grow long and mature a little then cutting to 2 buds, pruning younger branches, removing suckers, defoliating etc. Nothing.
The only thing I have not tried yet is to cut back very hard in the hope of getting the stub to throw up more than one branch. I intend to try that after flowering this year. From the Japanese pics I have seen, it seems to be quite possible to branch these things so I'll just keep trying! Chaenomeles japonica is a much lower shrub and tends to ramify more easily but certainly not as easily as other deciduous plants. Superba is probably in between. Chojubai is the best for ramification and that is one reason I have crossed it with the normal japonica and also speciosa. Of course grafting is one option and also planting many cuttings together may be another.

japonica...



speciosa....



I used toyonishiki as examples of speciosa because I am 100% certain that's what they are. The one below obviously has pretty good ramification - although it may be a century old! How old are you?

 

[Tiki]

You can keep quince alive in Jax? I had no idea.

Love the flower.

 

[drew33998]

The ones you are talking about (as in your pic) are Chinese flowering quince. Chaenomeles speciosa. The Japanese flowering Quince is Chaenomeles japonica. Their hybrid is Ch x superba.
Getting speciosa to ramify has been the bane of my existence for 30 years. I continue to try. Defoliation did not work for me. Although many buds appeared, only a few turned into branches. I have 2 thirty year old plants of speciosa and even now most branches have only 1 ramification. I have followed all the advice on pruning including waiting for the new growth to grow long and mature a little then cutting to 2 buds, pruning younger branches, removing suckers, defoliating etc. Nothing.
The only thing I have not tried yet is to cut back very hard in the hope of getting the stub to throw up more than one branch. I intend to try that after flowering this year. From the Japanese pics I have seen, it seems to be quite possible to branch these things so I'll just keep trying! Chaenomeles japonica is a much lower shrub and tends to ramify more easily but certainly not as easily as other deciduous plants. Superba is probably in between. Chojubai is the best for ramification and that is one reason I have crossed it with the normal japonica and also speciosa. Of course grafting is one option and also planting many cuttings together may be another.

japonica...
View attachment 150703


speciosa....
View attachment 150704


I used toyonishiki as examples of speciosa because I am 100% certain that's what they are. The one below obviously has pretty good ramification - although it may be a century old! How old are you?
View attachment 150705

I thought the chinese quince was psuedocydonia sinesis. Call me ignorant but i didnt know that fact. That makes sense though i always saw chojubai and thought it was just a better cultivar.

 

[drew33998]

I am a few years older than your experience with quince btw! Dont they make a type of liquid that will cause plants to backbud? Seems like i stumbled on a thread about that being discussed by the more scientific minds here.

 

[MichaelS]

I thought the chinese quince was psuedocydonia sinesis. Call me ignorant but i didnt know that fact. That makes sense though i always saw chojubai and thought it was just a better cultivar.

The Chinese quince is in a different genus altogether. That was Pseudocydonia but now plain old Cydonia apparently. That is a tree and a totally different thing. Much easier to ramify than Chaenomeles. As for the chemical to induce budding, I think plant growth regulators should be kept away from bonsai but that's just me.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I believe that pretty much all flowering quince in cultivation are C. x superba. Without provenance showing actual location where 'Toyo Nishiki' was collected from the wild it is impossible to be certain that it is 'pure' C speciosa. I suppose one could do DNA analysis, but so far nobody has gone through the expense. 'Toyo Nishiki' has been in cultivation so long that it's provenance is more myth than "scientific". Hybrids can have a wide range of phenotype expression, especially when crosses are remade with different parents, and selections from selfings are considered.

Chaenomeles taxonomy is very confused, and without a serious student recollecting from wild to create a DNA database of wild species genome, and then comparing the DNA of cultivars in cultivation to this DNA database, any claim that one cultivar or another is a specific species is at best a guess.

I have 'Toyo Nishiki', it is still young, and does not have more than one level of branching, but my 'Chojubai' is two years older than my 'Toyo Nishiki', and it also has only one level of ramification. Clearly from the photos Michael posted, both will eventually ramify, it is just a matter of time and good horticulture.

I do believe that allowing the the Chaenomeles to grow out until late summer, then cutting back hard is the best way. Constant pruning through the growing season is likely to get a weak response. My flowering quince seem to grow as much during the late summer growth spurt as they do in spring.

But I am not exactly expert with Chaenomeles, none of mine are show quality trees.

 

[GrimLore]

I do believe that allowing the the Chaenomeles to grow out until late summer, then cutting back hard is the best way. Constant pruning through the growing season is likely to get a weak response. My flowering quince seem to grow as much during the late summer growth spurt as they do in spring.

In Peter D. Adams book The Art of Flowering Bonsai I am pretty certain that is what he recommends for all species. I have a Toyo Noshiki, young, and I trimmed it back late Summer here last year with me. This Spring I dug in and took out all of the root suckers. In the last couple of months it is showing its first stages of ramification on 3 of 5 branches.

Grimmy

 

[GrimLore]

I do believe that allowing the the Chaenomeles to grow out until late summer, then cutting back hard is the best way.

It applies to all types, have had them all over several years.

In the last couple of months it is showing its first stages of ramification on 3 of 5 branches.

I went out today after this post and closely looked at mine closely and misspoke in that comment. The Branches I cut back ALL produced from two to five more branches this year since Spring. It is VERY full right now and I will be cutting the new growth in half this Fall. For the record I have had much the same success with any Quince and I find that I do not if left in Full Sun - here they respond nicely to filtered sun...



Grimmy

 

[drew33998]

So the verdict is cut them back hard in late summer. What would be late summer? Our temps stay in the 90s into september. Cooling somewhat in october, but growth can continue into december for these guys in my area.

 

[R3x]

I have Chaenomeles japonica 'Cido' which they promote here as a great source of vitamin C. Have it growing in ground for few years, flowering in spring and in autumn - single red flowers. Mostly long branches without any sub-branches. This year in early spring (before they start to push leaves) I cut it quite hard to few centimeters and I believe it started to branch pretty well. Will look it up when I get home and take a photo.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

So the verdict is cut them back hard in late summer. What would be late summer? Our temps stay in the 90s into september. Cooling somewhat in october, but growth can continue into december for these guys in my area.

Only you can decide when late summer will be. It is not arbitrary.
For me about August 15, a month before the autumnal equinox my night time temperatures begin to reliably drop below 65 F, and usually by end of August flowering quince begins putting out its late summer flush of new leaves and if you keep track, about then they will send out a flush of new roots. This is the reason late summer repotting is recommended for Chaenomeles.

Now you are in Florida, observe your own flowering quince, when do they put out a flush of leaves for you? September? November?

I do not know if this late summer flush of growth is tied to day length or if it is tied to night time low temperatures. You will need to observe your own plants. IF they have a flush of new leaves in late Aug, early September, it is daylength that is the environmental control. If they do not have a flush until your weather cools at night, then the control is night time low temperatures.

I'm far enough north that temperatures change very closely matched to daylength, so I can not answer it for you, and I have not seen this mentioned directly in any of the literature I've read over the years.

 

[drew33998]

Sorry that was a loaded question. Prob could take a whole thread to unbox it. I will try to keep a close watch on them to see when that last flush of growth is.

 

[augustine]

Drew,

FWIW my contorted white is reluctant to bloom. I've had it 5 years and this is the first year it bloomed (and not much). I read about the pruning in late summer technique to which Grimmy referred. Actually I may have done it last year but can't remember. Will definitely do it this year.

I have 2 "Double Take" varieties (Scarlet Storm and Pink Storm) which are relatively new varieties. They are great bloomers and more insect resistant than the older varieties. Flowers are beautiful, more camellia like than older forms. They also thicken better. I highly recommend the Double-Takes. (Got the first one from Mr. Valavanis' annual catalog. Thanks Bill)

Happy Independence Day to all. Thank the good Lord that liberty is back in style! God Bless America. Stay well.

 

[augustine]

One more thing I didn't mention. The contorted white flowers are very beautiful, worth the wait.