Tool Decision - Ashinaga or Classic?

[scottydog]

Need some help on deciding between ashinaga and classic shears. I'm a novice and have my first bonsai class later this month. I plan on only working with azalea, pines, and junipers with junipers being the focus. I don't like having no options but having too many is just as bad. The Wazakura kits I'm looking at don't have classic included. The have ashinaga and satsuki or ashinaga and twig. My question is are the classics better than ashinaga? I was thinking of asking them to swap out the ashinaga for a classic but only if its recommended. I have to admit I like the butterfly classics look...

This is what I'm looking at

6PCS Bonsai Professional Tool Kit [ Ashinaga & Twig Scissors + 4 Cutters ]

6PCS bonsai professional tool kit includes a concave, knob, and wire cutters Jin Pliers, yasugi satsuki and twig scissors and tool roll case. Made in Japan, great for advanced learners and professionals! [Free Shipping in US, CA, and UK]

wazakurajapan.com

Would that be a good beginners kit?

 

[Shibui]

My guess is that if you have not used any other it won't matter.
I have always used the larger handle classic style as root shears and the smaller handles for twigs but there's probably not much advantage to either as you are still just using pressure from thumb to oppose the fingers to make cuts.
If there was a compelling reason for the classic over ashinaga I'm sure Wazakura would have classic in the kits.

 

[rockm]

Not really a fan of buying "complete" tool kits. They're like killing a fly with a shotgun. You're not going to use half of what's presented there for a long while. Concave cutters, one nice pair of shears in the medium size range possibly some wire cutters. About all you need unless you have a dozen advanced trees. Opt for basic tools. Wouldn't go for fancy. See how those work. See what you actually need as you work on your trees. Add as needed down the road.

 

[Paradox]

I think that 6 piece set is a good start, it has
Wire cutters and pliers both needed for repotting
Concave and a branch cutter, both good for their different cutting styles
2 kinds of shears, fine and a bit heavier.
One could argue you don't need the heavier one but the fine are good for fine pruning the medium for a bit bigger twigs.
The tool roll included is also great imo.

The thing with this set is you will need to be really good about, cleaning, drying and oiling all those tools after every use or they will rust.

 

[scottydog]

Not really a fan of buying "complete" tool kits. They're like killing a fly with a shotgun. You're not going to use half of what's presented there for a long while. Concave cutters, one nice pair of shears in the medium size range possibly some wire cutters. About all you need unless you have a dozen advanced trees. Opt for basic tools. Wouldn't go for fancy. See how those work. See what you actually need as you work on your trees. Add as needed down the road.

I agree to a certain extent having read many posts and articles regarding tool kits. Perfect example is Wazakura's 3 and 4 piece sets. Including a broom..etc. not needed but the other thing is the other tools aren't bsaic needs. There are sap erasers that are just as good and much cheaper so i would prefer buying seperately. I'm a novice and to me, a perfect beginners set would be a concave, rake or single prong, wire cutters, and a set of scissors (butterfly, ashinaga, twig, or satsuki). Having a choice of the 4 scissors would be for those that may already have a pair or might have normal gardening shears. I guess the same thing goes for wire cutters. I guess I just like uniformity. The only other thing is buying pieces one by one will cost more in the long run.

I guess it boils down to having all the same tools from one vendor, having a mixture, or even using existing tools like pruning shears (felco...etc.).

I mainly wanted opinions on classic butterfly vs ashinaga, I guess. I see that ashinaga was made to mimic the feel of normal gardening shears, especially in the US. If there is no advantage of one over the other, then I mind as well get what looks better...to me.

 

[scottydog]

My guess is that if you have not used any other it won't matter.
I have always used the larger handle classic style as root shears and the smaller handles for twigs but there's probably not much advantage to either as you are still just using pressure from thumb to oppose the fingers to make cuts.
If there was a compelling reason for the classic over ashinaga I'm sure Wazakura would have classic in the kits.

I'm thinking it might have to do with the audience. In Japan, it may really only offer the classic, I don't know. Menu at McDonald's in the US is different vs Japan or the UK...etc.

Boy...decisions

 

[rockm]

I agree to a certain extent having read many posts and articles regarding tool kits. Perfect example is Wazakura's 3 and 4 piece sets. Including a broom..etc. not needed but the other thing is the other tools aren't bsaic needs. There are sap erasers that are just as good and much cheaper so i would prefer buying seperately. I'm a novice and to me, a perfect beginners set would be a concave, rake or single prong, wire cutters, and a set of scissors (butterfly, ashinaga, twig, or satsuki). Having a choice of the 4 scissors would be for those that may already have a pair or might have normal gardening shears. I guess the same thing goes for wire cutters. I guess I just like uniformity. The only other thing is buying pieces one by one will cost more in the long run.

I guess it boils down to having all the same tools from one vendor, having a mixture, or even using existing tools like pruning shears (felco...etc.).

I mainly wanted opinions on classic butterfly vs ashinaga, I guess. I see that ashinaga was made to mimic the feel of normal gardening shears, especially in the US. If there is no advantage of one over the other, then I mind as well get what looks better...to me.

You're overthinking here, or rationalizing a purchase (which isn't a bad thing, but call it what it is).

FWIW, if I was starting out again, I'd get a Concave cutter, skip the rake get a steel chopstick--$7 for two on Amazon, and a $9 pair of embroidery scissors. I'd use those for a few years, unless I had very large trees. I've accumulated over 100 tools of various makers over the years. I've never had an urge to match manufacturers for the sake of matching tools. I don't know of any bonsai professional who has matched tools. The opposite in fact. I don't know of any who use a single brand specifically. They use what works and what they can afford.

 

[Paradox]

I have no

I agree to a certain extent having read many posts and articles regarding tool kits. Perfect example is Wazakura's 3 and 4 piece sets. Including a broom..etc. not needed but the other thing is the other tools aren't bsaic needs. There are sap erasers that are just as good and much cheaper so i would prefer buying seperately. I'm a novice and to me, a perfect beginners set would be a concave, rake or single prong, wire cutters, and a set of scissors (butterfly, ashinaga, twig, or satsuki). Having a choice of the 4 scissors would be for those that may already have a pair or might have normal gardening shears. I guess the same thing goes for wire cutters. I guess I just like uniformity. The only other thing is buying pieces one by one will cost more in the long run.

I guess it boils down to having all the same tools from one vendor, having a mixture, or even using existing tools like pruning shears (felco...etc.).

I mainly wanted opinions on classic butterfly vs ashinaga, I guess. I see that ashinaga was made to mimic the feel of normal gardening shears, especially in the US. If there is no advantage of one over the other, then I mind as well get what looks better...to me.

I have no idea the difference between those and I've been doing bonsai for 13 years. I have 3 pairs of scissors, each a different configuration. Don't know if they are classified vs ashinaga or whatever. I just know they each work for what each design was meant for. I've also used gardening scissors. They all work