Too aggressive in root clearing while repotting?

[Cria]

I repotted this nursery cypress I bought last week which was pretty root bound so I took my time detangling every root with my trusty chopstick to clear it out. Now a week later I've got some browning of some of the foliage and wondering if I was too aggressive. Or was I just poor in my timing and should have waited to repot? Or is it just recovering?

Second set of photos is a deciduous azalea bought same day post root-clearing. Root ball was so tight virtually no water was reaching it at first. My kanuma came in today so I repotted it too, but was a bit less aggressive than with the cypress. Still wondering if it was too much and I should have sought advice on my potential cypress blunder first before jumping in. Digging out roots is just so cathartic I couldn't help myself.

Thanks for any input!

 

[ShadyStump]

No personal experience with cypress, but you are on the late side for root work.
How long did it take? The roots look a bit dry in some of your pics. Keep a bucket of water or a spray bottle handy next time to keep the roots damp.

I suggest keeping it in the shade, maybe watering a little extra. Elevated humidity will help.
You might try putting a plastic bag over it, or something similar to trap moisture in. Like a makeshift greenhouse of sorts.

 

[rockm]

It's on the very late side for repotting anything. Keep your fingers crossed for both.

 

[Cria]

No personal experience with cypress, but you are on the late side for root work.
How long did it take? The roots look a bit dry in some of your pics. Keep a bucket of water or a spray bottle handy next time to keep the roots damp.

I suggest keeping it in the shade, maybe watering a little extra. Elevated humidity will help.
You might try putting a plastic bag over it, or something similar to trap moisture in. Like a makeshift greenhouse of sorts.

Yeah I definitely the think I let the roots get too dry while I was in the zone. Kept the azalea a lot more wet as I went along.

And thanks to you both for the timing tip. When should I have ideally repotted instead? And does timing pretty much always trump the need for better soil in your experience? They were so densely packed in their nursery pots I felt like they would go nowhere this year if I left them in that. (Then again they'll go nowhere if I killed or stunted them badly with this maneuver). I got them as cheap sale shrubs so I didn't have much restraint with this experiment - but aI want to make sure I take away a lesson from this if nothing else.

 

[rockm]

Yeah I definitely the think I let the roots get too dry while I was in the zone. Kept the azalea a lot more wet as I went along.

And thanks to you both for the timing tip. When should I have ideally repotted instead? And does timing pretty much always trump the need for better soil in your experience? They were so densely packed in their nursery pots I felt like they would go nowhere this year if I left them in that. (Then again they'll go nowhere if I killed or stunted them badly with this maneuver). I got them as cheap sale shrubs so I didn't have much restraint with this experiment - but aI want to make sure I take away a lesson from this if nothing else.

Timing trumps everything in bonsai work. Miss the early spring/late winter repotting season and you should mostly wait until the next--can depend on species though.
the optimal time is just before active growth begins--in the case of your two trees that time is determined by observing WHEN the trees begin pushing new growth--that takes a couple of years of just watching.

If the roots are densely packed and it's past repotting time, make do, try to open up the root mass using a chopstick pushed and moved around in the soil. use a cordless drill to gently drill into the root mass. See if you can backfill with bonsai soil. Get the tree to limp along until next spring when you can work on the roots

Probably didn't kill these, but I wouldn't expect great things to happen this year with them. You might lose pieces of them as they readjust to their reduced roots..

 

[Cria]

Timing trumps everything in bonsai work. Miss the early spring/late winter repotting season and you should mostly wait until the next--can depend on species though.
the optimal time is just before active growth begins--in the case of your two trees that time is determined by observing WHEN the trees begin pushing new growth--that takes a couple of years of just watching.

If the roots are densely packed and it's past repotting time, make do, try to open up the root mass using a chopstick pushed and moved around in the soil. use a cordless drill to gently drill into the root mass. See if you can backfill with bonsai soil. Get the tree to limp along until next spring when you can work on the roots

Probably didn't kill these, but I wouldn't expect great things to happen this year with them. You might lose pieces of them as they readjust to their reduced roots..

Thanks, that is extremely helpful! Trying to figure out what the seasons are doing here in NYC. It was still 45 degrees about two weeks ago so it is only just now feeling like the first weeks of spring as a human. Will watch these two for a few years and see what their opinions on real springtime is. I also have two dense junipers from the same sale so might try the root mass drilling with one of them and leave the other as a control.

 

[Dav4]

Thanks, that is extremely helpful! Trying to figure out what the seasons are doing here in NYC. It was still 45 degrees about two weeks ago so it is only just now feeling like the first weeks of spring as a human. Will watch these two for a few years and see what their opinions on real springtime is. I also have two dense junipers from the same sale so might try the root mass drilling with one of them and leave the other as a control.

Don't look at the calendar... look at your trees. The vast majority of tree species can safely have their roots worked and reduced meaningfully just as they are breaking dormancy, and signs of growth will be apparent as buds swell and begin to push. For your location, and also dependent on overwintering set up and species, that could be anytime from late February through April and perhaps even early May for junipers. For the Junipers, if they are truly root bound, you could probably do a lighter handed re-pot now, gently removing some soil and roots from all sides of the root ball, including the top, then pot back up again.

 

[River's Edge]

Conifersd are not usually bare rooted and timing is important. The cypress would have been better off if 1/2 was done at a time.
Other considerations are the conditions during the repot. For example did you take the time to mist the foliage and roots while you worked them to ensure they did not dry out during the process?
Aftercare can play big role as well, ensuring they are carefully watered each day, protected from wind indirect sun. If very concerned one can "tent the plant and maintain higher humidity during the recovery process.
Just some additional tips for better results over time.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Nice looking tree. Misting several times a day will help recovery considerably. I usually go conservative with root work like this over several years. To open up a dense rootball I take pie shaped wedges out of it and fill that with bonsai soil. You can also simply drill 1/2” diameter holes in the rootball and fill those with soil. Once the tree has recovered the following year then I start tearing into the rootball but again half bare rooting. Good luck.

 

[Cria]

Don't look at the calendar... look at your trees. The vast majority of tree species can safely have their roots worked and reduced meaningfully just as they are breaking dormancy, and signs of growth will be apparent as buds swell and begin to push. For your location, and also dependent on overwintering set up and species, that could be anytime from late February through April and perhaps even early May for junipers. For the Junipers, if they are truly root bound, you could probably do a lighter handed re-pot now, gently removing some soil and roots from all sides of the root ball, including the top, then pot back up again.

It figures the only ones I didn't touch the roots on yet are the ones that would've handled it the best. Appreciate the insight!

Conifersd are not usually bare rooted and timing is important. The cypress would have been better off if 1/2 was done at a time.
Other considerations are the conditions during the repot. For example did you take the time to mist the foliage and roots while you worked them to ensure they did not dry out during the process?
Aftercare can play big role as well, ensuring they are carefully watered each day, protected from wind indirect sun. If very concerned one can "tent the plant and maintain higher humidity during the recovery process.
Just some additional tips for better results over time.

Good to know about not bare rooting the cypress! I'll admit the aggressive bare rooting occurred as I was trying to find where one of the larger roots was going and found it was curling under the tree out the other side instead of going out radially.(See second photo for the culprit). I was pleased to find it still quite pliable to try and train it out radially for the future, but I had to bare everything to achieve this. Time will tell if it was more risk than reward! I definitely zoned out and did not do a good job of keeping everything wet enough as I went along though. Have been doing close aftercare with good watering. Moved him to indirect sun once I saw the toasty foliage. Thanks much for the tips, I will keep in mind moving forward!

Nice looking tree. Misting several times a day will help recovery considerably. I usually go conservative with root work like this over several years. To open up a dense rootball I take pie shaped wedges out of it and fill that with bonsai soil. You can also simply drill 1/2” diameter holes in the rootball and fill those with soil. Once the tree has recovered the following year then I start tearing into the rootball but again half bare rooting. Good luck.

Thank you! I appreciate your root work tips. When you say you take pie shaped wedges do you mean you aggressively remove the soil from those areas or actually trim out whole wedges of roots and let them fill in over that year? For the misting, I had been doing that initially but then read that the water droplets in the sun during the day might be overheating and caught burns. He is now in more indirect sun, maybe I should return to misting?

 

[River's Edge]

but then read that the water droplets in the sun during the day might be overheating and caught burns.

This is false! Fake news. Ancient myth, however one wishes to express it.

 

[Cria]

This is false! Fake news. Ancient myth, however one wishes to express it.

Glad to hear it! Once less thing to worry about!

 

[rockm]

It figures the only ones I didn't touch the roots on yet are the ones that would've handled it the best. Appreciate the insight!


Good to know about not bare rooting the cypress! I'll admit the aggressive bare rooting occurred as I was trying to find where one of the larger roots was going and found it was curling under the tree out the other side instead of going out radially.(See second photo for the culprit). I was pleased to find it still quite pliable to try and train it out radially for the future, but I had to bare everything to achieve this. Time will tell if it was more risk than reward! I definitely zoned out and did not do a good job of keeping everything wet enough as I went along though. Have been doing close aftercare with good watering. Moved him to indirect sun once I saw the toasty foliage. Thanks much for the tips, I will keep in mind moving forward!

Thank you! I appreciate your root work tips. When you say you take pie shaped wedges do you mean you aggressively remove the soil from those areas or actually trim out whole wedges of roots and let them fill in over that year? For the misting, I had been doing that initially but then read that the water droplets in the sun during the day might be overheating and caught burns. He is now in more indirect sun, maybe I should return to misting?

The above is one of those myths that refuses to die. Logically, it makes no sense--if water droplets focused heat and energy on leaves, there would be no forests. They'd burst into flames after the sun came out post-thunderstorm. Rain droplets CAN however, become a vector for fungal/bacterial problems because they keep leaf surfaces constantly wet. Same goes for misting. Misting is not necessary if you live in an area that's not a desert. If you live in an area that gets hot humid wet weather, it's a recipe for fungal problems and dead roots.

 

[River's Edge]

The above is one of those myths that refuses to die. Logically, it makes no sense--if water droplets focused heat and energy on leaves, there would be no forests. They'd burst into flames after the sun came out post-thunderstorm. Rain droplets CAN however, become a vector for fungal/bacterial problems because they keep leaf surfaces constantly wet. Same goes for misting. Misting is not necessary if you live in an area that's not a desert. If you live in an area that gets hot humid wet weather, it's a recipe for fungal problems and dead roots.

If I could modify this slightly. It can be a problem with certain species and situations. It is very beneficial for certain species, Mt. Hemlock and Sub Alpine Fir for example that thrive in rain forest, misty conditions. It is also very beneficial in certain propagation techniques to improve survival rates. Also very beneficial for collection and helping stressed trees recover from severe root disruption.
Not recommended for Azalea or other species that can suffer from fungal issues in damp conditions. Lots of deciduous fruiting trees for example it is wiser to avoid misting.
That being said these trees do not usually die from fungal diseases due to normal rainfall, it is the excess situations that create the problems.
Not arguing just wanting to broaden the perspective a tad.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

It figures the only ones I didn't touch the roots on yet are the ones that would've handled it the best. Appreciate the insight!


Good to know about not bare rooting the cypress! I'll admit the aggressive bare rooting occurred as I was trying to find where one of the larger roots was going and found it was curling under the tree out the other side instead of going out radially.(See second photo for the culprit). I was pleased to find it still quite pliable to try and train it out radially for the future, but I had to bare everything to achieve this. Time will tell if it was more risk than reward! I definitely zoned out and did not do a good job of keeping everything wet enough as I went along though. Have been doing close aftercare with good watering. Moved him to indirect sun once I saw the toasty foliage. Thanks much for the tips, I will keep in mind moving forward!

Thank you! I appreciate your root work tips. When you say you take pie shaped wedges do you mean you aggressively remove the soil from those areas or actually trim out whole wedges of roots and let them fill in over that year? For the misting, I had been doing that initially but then read that the water droplets in the sun during the day might be overheating and caught burns. He is now in more indirect sun, maybe I should return to misting?

I literally cut wedge shaped notches into to rootball form the base out to the edge. Then fill that with bonsai soil. This provides better movement of water into the rootball, good drainage, and in effect is a half bare root approach without as much disturbance.

 

[Cria]

Just to close the loop on this, the Cypress is officially very very dead. Shading and twice daily misting couldn't undo my damage unfortunately. Lesson well learned!

My Azalea is going strong though. Thanks again everyone for the input - I will apply it towards my next victim.

 

[sorce]

Your llama doesn't look like it spits. Does it?

Sorce

 

[Cria]

Your llama doesn't look like it spits. Does it?

Sorce

He's an alpaca! So... Still spits actually. But not as much as a llama!