To what extent do trees permanently adapt to a climate?

[Bonsai Noodles]

I'm a bit new to bonsai, but I've had experience with growing trees in general. I've always noticed that plant, over time, get "accustomed" to their climate or environmental conditions. For example, a houseplant that's grown outside in a warmer area tends to wither away in a colder area (even if they are cold hardy to that location). Just recently, I purchased a trident maple that's always known Minnesota weather, and it's fared better than my Japanese Maples that came from California. This is only some little evidence for what appears to be some mechanism for more permanent climate acclimation, especially given how trident maples are more prone to cold damage. It doesn't seem to be just an annual thing. With this in mind, how should we treat our bonsai?

When we purchase a bonsai from a different part of the country, how do we get our trees more used to colder/warmer weather?

When we move to a new location and decide to bring our trees along with us, how do we get our trees more used to colder/warmer weather?

How permanent are these adaptations in your experiences? Will a tree that sprouted in Zone 9 never make it in Zone 6 or so? How have you dealt with this? Interested to hear your thoughts.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Hmm I ALSO admit to a healthy curiosity on this subject.

 

[hinmo24t]

when theyre mature in their respective setting

 

[leatherback]

Don't mix up 2 sides of this coin.

There is the phenology of a plant. This is the expression of the genes the plant has, to the local condition. This means that you take your tropical hibiscus outside for summer and you see the leaves change a little. They grow different surface and a different number of stomata outside in generally more humid air, than inside. This also means that a plant that was standing in Florida and is moved to michigan in summer will struggle there, untill new leaves have grown, fit for the right circumstances.

Then there is the genology side of things; The range of adaptation that is possible, is genetically defined. So a tree that evolved to be in the tropics, almost never, can deal with frost. And temperate species will most of the time struggle without a cold dormancy period. Even if you bring that individual plant to the tropics, it will in most cases not be able to "learn and adjust".

Interesting mid-effect: Some species have very wide ranges of natural occurance. Over time (Dozens of generations), a population of the species growing in a region exposed to say, random late frosts, will loose the individuals least adjusted to dealing with late frost, and you get a local population much hardier than the specimens from populations in regions than have little frost.

So the long-term adjustments coome over generations, whereas the individual can only respond to local variations within the genetically pre-programmed set of conditions.

 

[Bonsai Noodles]

Don't mix up 2 sides of this coin.

There is the phenology of a plant. This is the expression of the genes the plant has, to the local condition. This means that you take your tropical hibiscus outside for summer and you see the leaves change a little. They grow different surface and a different number of stomata outside in generally more humid air, then inside. This also means that a plant that was standing in Florida and is moved to michigan in summer will struggle there, untill new leaves have grown, fit for the right circumstances.

Then there is the genology side of things; The range of adaptation that is possible, is genetically defined. So a tree that evolved to be in the tropics, almost never, can deal with frost. And temperate species will most of the time struggle without a cold dormancy period. Even if you bring that individual plant to the tropics, it will in most cases not be able to "learn and adjust".

Interesting mid-effect: Some species have very wide ranges of natural occurance. Over time (Dozens of generations), a population of the species growing in a region exposed to say, random late frosts, will loose the individuals least adjusted to dealing with late frost, and you get a local population much hardier than the specimens from populations in regions than have little frost.

So the long-term adjustments coome over generations, whereas the individual can only respond to local variations within the genetically pre-programmed set of conditions.

Of course, very good point you brought up in this discussion.

If I had to describe what this thread is trying to accomplish, it's to answer how rigid the "phenology" of a plant is depending on its location. With your example of Florida to Michigan, will a tree really just struggle in the summer, or will it be a more permanent struggle?

Your discussion on "geneology" is basically what we see with cold hardiness zones, where it's species/cultivar specific. Ideally, we'd have all the time/trees in the world to coerce some directed evolution in our trees — selecting for trees that are most appropriate to wherever we are located — but for practical purposes, that's not possible. Plus, the human side of us also wants to be sentimental and keep our favorite trees, rather than let natural selection do its thing

 

[leatherback]

It is not permanent. If you move plants to a different climate, but which falls within the natural range, it will do fine after a period of adjustment.

 

[leatherback]

it's to answer how rigid the "phenology" of a plant is depending on its location. With your example of Florida to Michigan, will a tree really just struggle in the summer, or will it be a more permanent struggle?

Plants have a natural range that they occur at.

See this picture I just took from one of the studies I did in the past. Here we tried to define the vegetation based on the inunudation they can endure. Horizontally the duration of inundation, vertical the frequency of occurance. You see that for some species inundation is a problem, whereas other species optimally occur on medium inundation. (Several pages of diagrammes follow: You also have species that disappear if the area is not frequently flooded.

This indicates the inundation range where these plants do so well, that they can outcompete other species. Move the plant to a range outside of this environmental parameter and other species take over, unless you give them the advantage (take surrounding plants away) unless they die of flooding / drying out.

 

[jeremy_norbury]

Species take hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of years to evolve to different climates. You will never "convert" a tropical tree to being able to live in a cold climate, for example.

 

[PA_Penjing]

This doesn't answer your question, but it is closely related. I was told that a tree takes 2 years to adapt to a new environment. NEVER trust anyone who speaks in absolutes about botany, especially in relation to the roman calendar. But this might be an exception? Maybe two sets of seasons is a nicer way to phrase it ... regardless, I have seen this to be fairly true. This person is/was extremely experience in reloacting potted plants so I do trust him. Every season I watch my JMs from brent in CA grow straight into the first frost and lose their branch tips. But the next year they slow down a little earlier, and the year after that? sorta seems liek they knew winter was coming. That's an example based on one species, but my reliable source has obviously seen this to be the case across a broad range of genus and species. Just food for thought, maybe junk food

 

[PA_Penjing]

The above comment of course is about trees that are moved from a zone and type of climate they belong in, to another zone and climate they can typically still survive in. But I believe that's what you were asking in the first place. Not if tropicals can be grown in the tundra

 

[Bonsai Noodles]

Species take hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of years to evolve to different climates. You will never "convert" a tropical tree to being able to live in a cold climate, for example.

Thanks for the input, but don't worry, I majored in biology, so I know how evolution works

The above comment of course is about trees that are moved from a zone and type of climate they belong in, to another zone and climate they can typically still survive in. But I believe that's what you were asking in the first place. Not if tropicals can be grown in the tundra

Yep, and I think the whole 2 year thing is an interesting observation. I'll see what happens to my trees. Maybe I can be another data point to this in 2 years from now!

 

[leatherback]

I was told that a tree takes 2 years to adapt to a new environment. NEVER trust anyone who speaks in absolutes about botany, especially in relation to the roman calendar. But this might be an exception?

This is very much species dependent.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I think the 2 effects being referred to are

Genetic - this is programed into the DNA of the plant - each seedling, each individual is dealt this "hand" and the range of responses is limited to what is encoded. Here the Mendelian expression of genes is the model. Here the effects of geographic populations, with associated genetic drift and genetic selection for different gene frequencies in a given population figure into this.

Epigenetic. - This refers to the expression of the above coded in traits. Epigenetic changes respond to environmental changes. There may be a time period required, but changes in the environment can "turn on" or "turn off" expressions of specific genetic code. Here the genetics of the individual do not change, but the expression of traits does change. Here the "experience" of the individual affects the expression of traits over time.

The two effects are difficult to sort. There is no simple answer.

An example of genetic differences between populations, it is well known in the nursery trade that flowering dogwood, Cornus florida, comes from a wide range, USDA Zone 5 through Zone 9. Seed taken from wild populations in zone 9 will not be winter hardy in zone 5. So when ordering seed for the nursery trade, it is common to specify "northern sourced" or "southern sourced" seed. This is genetic.

Epigenetic - an example I know only from orchids, but I have first hand experience, a seedling grown hard, with low humidity, cooler temperatures less frequent watering, will grow more slowly. When moved to a better environment, for example, a greenhouse, this seedling may take 3 to 5 years to pick up vigor and begin to grow rapidly. Where as seedlings of the same species, several years younger, given the ideal greenhouse care all along, will gallop ahead growing rapidly from the start. The epigenetic changes to adapt to the harsher conditions keep growth "down regulated" for a number of years after more ideal conditions are provided.

Its is a twisty subject, and difficult to sort out genetic adaptations, for example population genetics as in the dogwoods versus epigenetic changes as in the orchid seedlings.

 

[Bonsai Noodles]

I think the 2 effects being referred to are

Genetic - this is programed into the DNA of the plant - each seedling, each individual is dealt this "hand" and the range of responses is limited to what is encoded. Here the Mendelian expression of genes is the model. Here the effects of geographic populations, with associated genetic drift and genetic selection for different gene frequencies in a given population figure into this.

Epigenetic. - This refers to the expression of the above coded in traits. Epigenetic changes respond to environmental changes. There may be a time period required, but changes in the environment can "turn on" or "turn off" expressions of specific genetic code. Here the genetics of the individual do not change, but the expression of traits does change. Here the "experience" of the individual affects the expression of traits over time.

The two effects are difficult to sort. There is no simple answer.

An example of genetic differences between populations, it is well known in the nursery trade that flowering dogwood, Cornus florida, comes from a wide range, USDA Zone 5 through Zone 9. Seed taken from wild populations in zone 9 will not be winter hardy in zone 5. So when ordering seed for the nursery trade, it is common to specify "northern sourced" or "southern sourced" seed. This is genetic.

Epigenetic - an example I know only from orchids, but I have first hand experience, a seedling grown hard, with low humidity, cooler temperatures less frequent watering, will grow more slowly. When moved to a better environment, for example, a greenhouse, this seedling may take 3 to 5 years to pick up vigor and begin to grow rapidly. Where as seedlings of the same species, several years younger, given the ideal greenhouse care all along, will gallop ahead growing rapidly from the start. The epigenetic changes to adapt to the harsher conditions keep growth "down regulated" for a number of years after more ideal conditions are provided.

Its is a twisty subject, and difficult to sort out genetic adaptations, for example population genetics as in the dogwoods versus epigenetic changes as in the orchid seedlings.

I liked how you broke it up into genetic vs. epigenetic changes. While the biology is super fascinating to me, I do accept that practical experience (from masters of bonsai like yourself) definitely trumps hypothetical biological mechanisms. Now, it's very interesting to me to think how epigenetic changes can be permanent, at least for animal species (depending on what mechanism, which is a whole different can of worms). Question is: what about plant physiology? And as previous posters have mentioned, this is also very species dependent. These epigenetic changes may last 2-3 years, but are these mechanisms entirely different from ours? Are they just not studied as much because of the time scale these studies would have to be? My first hypothesis was that when plants are at a place where cold hardiness is not important (say, the tree grew up in California), they prioritize growth. Biologically, you might say that's just epigenetic changes that lead to higher transcription of genes related to growth and lower transcription of genes related to cold hardiness (e.g. cold-shock proteins? But I'm sure it's much more complicated). When you move a tree to a colder region (e.g. Minnesota), trees aren't too happy because they aren't packed with all of these cold-hardiness related proteins. The reverse would be your example where you move a tree that's not prioritized growth and prioritized survival in non-ideal conditions, and it takes time for the tree to say, aha, I shouldn't worry about the cold as much anymore. I guess it's somewhat reassuring to know that, at least for mainstream tree species, this process takes only a matter of several growing seasons.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

In conifers, many of the dwarf cultivars are "witches brooms", unusual, congested growth that clearly grew from a single meristematic bud on the tree. In the "lore" of dwarf conifer collectors, only a small percentage of the dwarfs are "stable". Many will revert back to the normal form of the species growth. Often when the reversion occurs it is again at a bud, and the dwarf ends up with a "reverse broom", where only one part of the dwarf reverts.

It is generally thought that these "witches brooms" are due to epigenetic changes. Some are quite stable. Some of the 'Dwarf Alberta Spruce' will be stable, even though propagated to thousands and thousands of plant via grafting, and only occasionally will a reversion occur over the nearly 100 years this cultivar has been grown. Others are not as stable. Variegation patterns are epigenetic. These are notorious for disappearing over time.

It is all so individually specific it is hard to make predictions. Some epigenetic changes have been demonstrated to be heritable, the methylation of the gene is preserved through as much as 3 generations, to be lost in the 4th generation. Others only last months or years.

Economic crops are well studied. If you looked at Arabidopsis, the thale cress that is the "lab rat" of the agriculture world you could find specific examples, but extrapolating from a mustard relative to trees is guess work at best.

So most bonsai species are poorly studied.

 

[Harunobu]

I doubt there is much long term adaptation. The plant either has the ability to survive, or it does not. Yes, it needs to be in sync with the seasons. So if you move it from a greenhouse into the outdoors, then yes it has to adapt. But a species won't learn to adapt to tougher winters just by experiencing gradually tougher winters. Yes, a tree can become more durable by getting larger and healthier. But this type of Lamarckian evolution is marginal, if it exists at all.

A plant keeps the seasons by using a chemical reaction that goes around in cycles, and that cycle lasts a year. So if that reaction has to oscillate more strongly (for example because it now has colder winters), the oscillation it made the previous year will have an effect on how strongly it oscillates this current year. But this type of memory kind of goes away. The plant doesn't remember past weather as far as I know. But it isn't completely disconnected from it either. But it is one way in which a plant may have to adapt. It has the genetics to keep track of the seasons. But it needs the input of the seasons for those mechanics to spring into action. And if these seasonal inputs have been absent or minor, the machinery that protects a tree during winter may activate poorly. That that could possibly have effects for several years.

Yes, there can be some epigenetic changes that occur when a plant and it's recent ancestors have experienced harsh winters. For example, the anti-freeze proteins might be over-expressed when compared to the maples back in (southern) Japan because of changes in the chromatin that build up during previous response to cold weather. But as far as we know that is quite marginal, and a subject of study currently. This is not something you can actively use.

Yes, it could be that a maple seedling grown from seeds harvested in a colder area will produce more cold-resistant offspring. But that could be because of genetic predisposition as much as through epigenetic ones. Surely, there is genetic variation among the wild populations. And that is the result of evolution that has occurred for maybe millions of years (depending on how far back the common ancestor of all Japanese maples lived.

 

[Minimalist (Mini)]

Hello Bonsainut! Pardon me if I am revisiting an outdated post.
I found this forum through multitudes of google searches over the years.
I want to say thank you to the creators of this site, and its active members for perpetuating a resource for the most beautiful art form and hobby.
Now, in regards to the topic.. I felt the need to create an account finally
I live in Alberta Canada. As you may guess, our winters are long and severe. I have studied bonsai through a book , and google/youtube for nearly a decade now. My passion only grows. But my environment is deadly for small pot based trees, or any small plant.
All the resources I have access to, rarely reference small/shohin sized deciduous plant care. (There are some standout artists such as Dave's Bonsai, and many others, who have to overcome winter hardship)
That being said, I have struggled, but persevered with beginner bonsai status. (Let it be known i have spent less than 50 dollars on all my trees, save for my Elmus Chinensis. Which has lived for 4 years in my posession! Exactly as long as my baby cousins marriage)
Pardon my long wind. I'm excited to join the community.
I feel I have learned much about harsh climate bonsai! What I have learned about the climate adaptability of tree species has been through good old Trial and Error.
I do not have a sufficient answer to this question, BUT;
I have been actively working toward winterizing temperate species kept in small pots, in the hopes that I can one day thrive along side a healthy collection of bonsai

So far, my chinese elm has been resilient and bounced back after winter. Losing only twiggy branches. But has never gone through a typical dormancy. In fact the leaves dont usually yellow / lose the chlorophyl. What happens is growing slows, and I am forced to bring the tree to a safe place in the house, and move it around in order to preserve what I believe to be, a Climate Cycle Adjustment. (-40 celcius presents risks)
In addition, this year i have kept the tree outside until 3 degrees celcius nights (as a low temperature)
This year, the tree yellowed a handful of leaves, and im in the process of building a small sized green house, so that i can ensure the trees dont freeze, but still gather light and air from the outdoors.
I suppose my post is only made to introduce myself, and be a thread that I can make monthly reports in, while welcoming feedback.
If this reply is mis-posted, and someone that took the time to read it thinks I need to change my post location, please let me know.

Thank you eternally.

PS. Sorry for being long winded
TL;DR Hi! I'm experimenting with adjusting climate cycles on temperate trees.

EDIT: I would like to add that in previous years my Elm was kept in my insulated garage until water freezing temp, and then brought inside for a ridiculous 3-4 months, which I believe inhibits a dormancy cycle.

 

[jeremy_norbury]

Welcome

You can't make trees "change" from being temperate species to semi-temperate or tropical - that takes thousands, if not millions of years of evolution.

I have about 30 Chinese elms :

• Some drop all their leaves every winter, some try to keep all their leaves and some are undecided. All drop their leaves in spring when new growth comes through.
• I provide protection for them every winter - they are not safe under -5C. If I put them in my greenhouse, the ones in the light hold their leaves, and those under a shelf will drop their leaves. Opportunistic...
• What you see with Chinese elms is that they are a rather special case - semi-deciduous. They go with the flow as it were and are opportunistic in their keeping of and dropping of leaves. They also do not require dormancy afaics.

A small greenhouse would need heating to say 2C...which in itself is a challenge.

 

[Minimalist (Mini)]

Welcome

You can't make trees "change" from being temperate species to semi-temperate or tropical - that takes thousands, if not millions of years of evolution.

I have about 30 Chinese elms :

• Some drop all their leaves every winter, some try to keep all their leaves and some are undecided. All drop their leaves in spring when new growth comes through.
• I provide protection for them every winter - they are not safe under -5C. If I put them in my greenhouse, the ones in the light hold their leaves, and those under a shelf will drop their leaves. Opportunistic...
• What you see with Chinese elms is that they are a rather special case - semi-deciduous. They go with the flow as it were and are opportunistic in their keeping of and dropping of leaves. They also do not require dormancy afaics.

A small greenhouse would need heating to say 2C...which in itself is a challenge.

Yes sir! It is a challenge, but it is also my goal. (in regards to the regulated 2-4 degree temperature)
Thanks much for the response, and many thanks for the info. I shall ponder my options while i finish my Greenshack (will end up looking like a doghouse with thick plastic panels, framed in lumber. Regulated heat lamp and air flow + latched roof panels)
I am a carpenter by trade, but I have also been an electrician for 7 years. It shouldn't be too bad I would love to share my progress. Fighting winter's fury will be interesting, but the health of my trees is top priority.
Thank you for the tip about not requiring dormancy per se. I'll keep it in mind. but I am hestitant to just stick a bonsai in a living room window, as it often breeds mites and things i can not understand, that seem to inhibit vitality.
Appreciate the conversation. very open to feedback.

 

[jeremy_norbury]

Yes sir! It is a challenge, but it is also my goal.
Thanks much for the response, and many thanks for the info. I shall ponder my options while i finish my Greenshack (will end up looking like a doghouse with thick plastic panels, framed in lumber. Regulated heat lamp and air flow + latched roof panels)
I am a carpenter by trade, but I have also been an electrician for 7 years. It shouldn't be too bad I would love to share my progress. Fighting winter's fury will be interesting, but the health of my trees is top priority.
Thank you for the tip about not requiring dormancy per se. I'll keep it in mind. but I am hestitant to just stick a bonsai in a living room window, as it often breeds mites and things i can not understand, that seem to inhibit vitality.
Appreciate the conversation. very open to feedback.

Or simply keep it indoors...because they can take that too.

I live in zone 9a - so mild wet winters, like the PNW of the US.

12159683 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr