Thread graft on Elm

[AaronThomas]

So here's a tree I posted a few months ago... It has very few branches majority of which are toward the middle of the tree. The top has this horrible chop with what looks like drill holes (Not my chop). I was thinking of attempting of doing a thread graft or two toward the top. I Thought it might be a good time to give it a shot because there are a few shoots near by that could be candidates once they get a bit longer. Wondering if a graft would take if I drilled at an angel up through the top of the tree or is it better through the trunk?

 

[justBonsai]

You already have a branch at the very top of the chop. You could just carve out the top a bit and let the highest branch grow unchecked for a bit to seal up the wound. Or wait for backbudding where you want it. Elms typically back bud very well and there shouldn't be a need for thread grafting.

 

[AaronThomas]

Good point! I figured that putting a new branch in that area would help fill it in a bit.

 

[TomB]

Your red line wouldn't work. The shoot needs to be making contact with cambium at the point you want the graft to take, in your photo it would be going through (dead) wood.

 

[Jeremy]

I tend to think cleaning up the cut would give more than a few buds at the cut site. Chinese elm are rampant growers, only old specimens would need grafting.

 

[leatherback]

The shoot needs to be making contact with cambium at the point you want the graft to take, in your photo it would be going through (dead) wood.

That is exctly what I was thinking. The brown line on the bark seems to delineate a boundary between living and dead tissue.

I do not know what the whole tree looks like. But have you considered trimming further back, to the thick branch at the bottom of the image, and building from there?

 

[AaronThomas]

Your red line wouldn't work.

Not sure thats true.... this graft took. But I suppose if the shoot grows long enough I wouldn't have to go through the top of the tree so I see your point.

I tend to think cleaning up the cut would give more than a few buds at the cut site.

I so wish that was the case... I tried cleaning up two years ago and again this year (the best I could) and nothing. What the heck is that drill hole in the middle of the tree! When I got it it was covered with paste. Its almost like a paddle bit was used to make the chop.

I do not know what the whole tree looks like. But have you considered trimming further back, to the thick branch at the bottom of the image, and building from there?

Hey leatherback.... Funny you should say that. That was the topic of a previous tread seen here. It was decided to reinvent the tree in broom style.
There are just so few branches I thought adding a branch or two my help me in the future with the branch ramification.
Here is a before and after of the tree.... Pics were taken early on in the season so its looking pretty leggy.

 

[AaronThomas]

Here's the tree growing out today. Definitely better than it was a month or so ago..... Or at least in my mind

 

[leatherback]

this graft took.

Hm.. Why do yousay that one took? Looks to me that it is full feeding on the leading branch still? Point was, that you need to have living cambium for the greft to take.

That was the topic of a previous tread seen here. It was decided to reinvent the tree in broom style.

OK. Fair enough. I am not sure I would have. But I am a drastic chopper..

Here's the tree growing out today.

Are you considering a ground layer and/or plantng the tree deeper? I think it would look better if the soil covers a little more of therootbase...

 

[AaronThomas]

Why do yousay that one took?

It was part of a demo... step by step how to. Saw the graft months later...... ill find it.

plantng the tree deeper

Yep.... Definitely going to plant deeper next year. Also going to try to pull those 2 right roots down and the left root a bit further back.

 

[AaronThomas]

Found it!
Here's a wider shot


Here is is a few years later wired... Tree has been turned around.

 

[ColinFraser]

Found it!
Here's a wider shot
View attachment 101555

Here is is a few years later wired... Tree has been turned around.
View attachment 101556

In your pictures, the leading tip of the whip is EXITING through live wood on the side of the trunk - that is where the graft occurred. The fact that it ENTERED through dead wood at the chop is irrelevant. That's why it took. If you were to try it the other way, with the growing tip exiting up through the deadwood, it would FAIL.

 

[AaronThomas]

If you were to try it the other way, with the growing tip exiting up through the deadwood, it would FAIL.

I'm sorry I was totally unclear... this will teach me to have a drink before I post. I didn't mean I wanted the thread to come out of the top. I said drill up (down) through the top but meant for the thread to come out of the trunk. There's not a lot of room for me to get in there below the chop to drill. I want the new branch to come out the front more or less to fill in that space. Should have put arrows!

 

[ColinFraser]

I'm sorry I was totally unclear... this will teach me to have a drink before I post. I didn't mean I wanted the thread to come out of the top. I said drill up (down) through the top but meant for the thread to come out of the trunk. There's not a lot of room for me to get in there below the chop to drill. I want the new branch to come out the front more or less to fill in that space. Should have put arrows!

View attachment 101568

Cool. makes sense - you want to start drilling the hole where you want the whip to exit, so you have precise control over the location. It won't matter where it exits on the top, but it would b a shame to "drill down" from the chop and not have it exit exactly where you want it!

 

[AaronThomas]

Cool. makes sense - you want to start drilling the hole where you want the whip to exit, so you have precise control over the location. It won't matter where it exits on the top, but it would b a shame to "drill down" from the chop and not have it exit exactly where you want it!

Awesome! Sorry for the confusion!
Is it better if the thread goes upwards or does it not matter?

 

[ColinFraser]

Awesome! Sorry for the confusion!
Is it better if the thread goes upwards or does it not matter?

I've read that having the growing tip of the whip pointing upward and/or above the level of its base may help with vigor; not enough personal data to comment though . . .

 

[AaronThomas]

I've read that having the growing tip of the whip pointing upward and/or above the level of its base may help with vigor; not enough personal data to comment though . . .

Thanks Colin!!!

 

[AaronThomas]

So... here's an update to a post from 2 years ago. At the time I was wondering if if a thread graft would help the the ramification. As discussed I ended up wiring branches as well as using wires to pull branches down. I think the tree looks so much better than it did, so thanks all the the input! Lots more work to do... especally really dealing with the root situation next. After reading @Mellow Mullet post about creating a broom style elm, I got thinking about starting over with the roots by air-layering the tree down to the current taper at the bottom of the tree. I've been totally chicken about reducing the roots on this tree. The current situation below the pot is scary.... its been a tangle of thick root since I got it. I would much rather plant the tree lower in the pot to achieve the same goal but not sure how much I can really prune. When I re-pot next year ill post picks of the root ball to get some advice as to how to proceed. As for now... Wanted to post the progress. Ideas welcome!