The most valuable tree that you know died...

Bonsai Nut

Nuttier than your average Nut
Messages
12,470
Reaction score
28,085
Location
Charlotte area, North Carolina
USDA Zone
8a
I was online looking for "perfect" bonsai trees for @Brian Van Fleet thread, and I started to realize how many hundreds and hundreds of truly amazing bonsai are out there. You can see some of the nurseries in Japan that have 100 (or more) stunning JBP in the ground, and in the next field they have another 100 JWP.

Which raises the question. You can't continue to keep producing bonsai masterpieces indefinitely. They must die or fall to neglect - purchased by someone who can't maintain them.

I know we all lose "nice" trees on occasion. But have any of you heard of "masterpieces" dying? I assume that no one wants to talk about it if they lose a tree worth $10,000's...
 

Littlejoe919

Shohin
Messages
268
Reaction score
345
Location
Durham, NC
USDA Zone
7b?
I watched a youtube video yesterday of Bjorn doing a demonstration on a JBP in Australia. During the conversation, he talked about a well known nursery in Japan that had been taken over by a grandson when the grandfather passed. The grandson remodeled the nursery. He had added some copper roofing. Several very valuable client trees were killed because of the run off from the new copper roof. Ouch! He said the nursery survived the blunder.
 

Velodog2

Chumono
Messages
950
Reaction score
2,066
Location
Central Maryland
There was a Japanese bonsai that was very famous indeed that infamously died after being sent to the US sometime in the twentieth century. I can't think of its name and don't have time to look it up right now as I'm taking a "quick" break from cleaning the yard (neglected as usual due to repotting obligations). I think the death may have been attributed possibly to the quarantine/fumigation/etc required for importation but regardless I got the impression it was quite scandalous.
 

Brian Van Fleet

Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Messages
13,991
Reaction score
46,122
Location
B’ham, AL
USDA Zone
8A
I killed this one; my most expensive tree at the time. It was $2000, before Peter Warren and I wired it:
IMG_0266.JPG
This one was a Kokufu tree and on the cover of Bonsai Today 42 or 43. It declined almost to death, and a photo of it resurfaced recovering in a wooden box at Shinji Suzuki's nursery a few years ago. Strange to see such a masterpiece relegated to a wood box on the floor in the corner of a nursery. At least it's still live.
IMG_0264.JPG IMG_0265.JPG
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,885
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
There was a Japanese bonsai that was very famous indeed that infamously died after being sent to the US sometime in the twentieth century. I can't think of its name and don't have time to look it up right now as I'm taking a "quick" break from cleaning the yard (neglected as usual due to repotting obligations). I think the death may have been attributed possibly to the quarantine/fumigation/etc required for importation but regardless I got the impression it was quite scandalous.
I believe it's name was "Fudo".
 

JoeR

Masterpiece
Messages
3,949
Reaction score
3,452
Location
Sandhills of North Carolina
USDA Zone
8a
I was online looking for "perfect" bonsai trees for @Brian Van Fleet thread, and I started to realize how many hundreds and hundreds of truly amazing bonsai are out there. You can see some of the nurseries in Japan that have 100 (or more) stunning JBP in the ground, and in the next field they have another 100 JWP.

Which raises the question. You can't continue to keep producing bonsai masterpieces indefinitely. They must die or fall to neglect - purchased by someone who can't maintain them.

I know we all lose "nice" trees on occasion. But have any of you heard of "masterpieces" dying? I assume that no one wants to talk about it if they lose a tree worth $10,000's...
I was thinking about this yeserday. This is really the only thing that prevents me from spending a large amount of money on a tree. Seriously, one missed watering and bam- you're out $200-$10,000+!!

I lost out on a real nice imported satsuki (something that I've been wanting for a longgg time) simply because I was thinking about how busy I've been lately, and what if I get caught up in something and missed a watering... scared me out of it. But I'll have my highschool diploma and my Associates in Science all finished this fall, so maybe I'll have more time then and can finally get that imported satsuki... or I'll end up at a UNCW and have to sell all my trees. Who knows.

This kinda ties into that "why aren't young people into bonsai" thread- and it's not the crap that people here have been spewing about how youngsters are all "instant gratification", or lazy, or whatever they think. Complete bull; some people need to get over themselves. Let's be honest- this is an old mans (or woman's :p)hobby, and will continue to be so until prices go down significantly. No one my age can risk $600 (which is a lot to people under 25ish) on a tree, especially when they have other priorities. That, combined with time constraints and not staying at the same residence. Also a lot of millennial are now attending four-year universities and can't have trees at their dorms.


Sorry for getting a little off topic, but I feel the risk of losing an expensive or otherwise prized tree is definitely related and something to take into consideration.
 

Anthony

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,290
Reaction score
8,389
Location
West Indies [ Caribbean ]
USDA Zone
13
Don't ask here ask the various Japanese Bonsai Associations Bnut.
Also cost or Value / d .
This topic would have amazing responses!
Good Day
Anthony
 

Anthony

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,290
Reaction score
8,389
Location
West Indies [ Caribbean ]
USDA Zone
13
Also ask, which ones were freeze dried - preserved and are now on display in dust preventing
acrylic boxes.
That should give you the true value of a Bonsai.
Good Day
Anthony
 

ArtistWolf

Mame
Messages
121
Reaction score
103
Location
Seattle washington
I have to agree about the young generation comment! I had a baby, raised my competition working line German Shepherd dog, have dog training clients, wrote a fantasy novel (now working on editing and writing book two) all in the last two and a half years. I am 26 years old. Not to mention I am the caregiver for my mom who has had MS for 15 years and is extremely handicapped. Needless to say, my bonsai projects don't get the attention they could. But I still enjoy my time with the seedling position I have stepped into. I consider my bonsai journey to be a valuable one, and look forward to my golden years, someday when I am wrinkled and grey with a pair of clippers in hand and an army of clay pots lining the sunny side of my property.
 

chicago1980

Omono
Messages
1,405
Reaction score
2,655
I killed this one; my most expensive tree at the time. It was $2000, before Peter Warren and I wired it:
View attachment 142261
This one was a Kokufu tree and on the cover of Bonsai Today 42 or 43. It declined almost to death, and a photo of it resurfaced recovering in a wooden box at Shinji Suzuki's nursery a few years ago. Strange to see such a masterpiece relegated to a wood box on the floor in the corner of a nursery. At least it's still live.
View attachment 142259 View attachment 142260
What was the cause of death?
 

aml1014

Masterpiece
Messages
3,667
Reaction score
5,807
Location
Albuquerque new mexico
USDA Zone
7b
Let's be honest- this is an old mans (or woman's :p)hobby, and will continue to be so until prices go down significantly. No one my age can risk $600 (which is a lot to people under 25ish) on a tree, especially when they have other priorities
I have a few trees I won't say how much I spent on them lol but at least it's cool to say I'm a 22 year old with thousands of dollars in trees, people always freak out when I say that:p

Luckily I have a lot of nursery/horticulture experience and haven't killed a tree in awhile unless it was for shits and giggles and was cheap so I'd have something to play with:rolleyes:

Aaron
 

JoeR

Masterpiece
Messages
3,949
Reaction score
3,452
Location
Sandhills of North Carolina
USDA Zone
8a
I have a few trees I won't say how much I spent on them lol but at least it's cool to say I'm a 22 year old with thousands of dollars in trees, people always freak out when I say that:p

Luckily I have a lot of nursery/horticulture experience and haven't killed a tree in awhile unless it was for shits and giggles and was cheap so I'd have something to play with:rolleyes:

Aaron
There's definitely 'exceptions to the rule' so to speak, and you're one! Most people was the emphasis there lol. I too have a couple thousand worth of trees (not just bonsai) and greenhouse stuff, but like I said we are the exception for sure. We're also very obsessive, and most people probably wouldn't be as devoted (obsessed) as we are.
 

Owen Reich

Shohin
Messages
335
Reaction score
1,125
There have been trees killed in Japan during the bonsai bubble by rival nurseries via water balloons filled with herbicide. People act in a different manner when zeros are added to the end of prices .

Lost a 5K tree while in Japan. A former friend in the US was supposed to water my collection for that three month timeframe and never came over (I set up a trail cam). Also lost about 40-50 rare plants. A valuable learning experience.
 

my nellie

Masterpiece
Messages
2,288
Reaction score
2,631
Location
Athens, Greece
USDA Zone
9a
The most striking in the case of "Fudo" is that this age-long tree survived the war and nuclear devastation in Japan and died because of quarantine USA laws requirement. It was some months after arriving in the States and this exceptionally sad event almost caused the Japanese government to refuse the Bicentennial gift of Bonsai.

Except "Fudo" I have been aware of two pines of Mr. Hans van Meer which died on him.
I don't know if they were masterpieces already or they were going to be in the future.... I just know they were equally age-long trees, like "Fudo" was.
One of them "The Swan" died because it was repotted out of his usual time of repotting, as Mr. van Meer concluded.

This is the first pine tree.
12-7-2010-004-Hans-van-Meer-web.jpg


And this is the Swan
juli-2008-31-hans-van-meer.jpg
12-7-2010-006-Hans-van-Meer-web.jpg
 

Cadillactaste

Neagari Gal
Messages
16,304
Reaction score
20,979
Location
NE Ohio: zone 4 (USA) lake microclimate
USDA Zone
5b
I was thinking about this yeserday. This is really the only thing that prevents me from spending a large amount of money on a tree. Seriously, one missed watering and bam- you're out $200-$10,000+!!

I lost out on a real nice imported satsuki (something that I've been wanting for a longgg time) simply because I was thinking about how busy I've been lately, and what if I get caught up in something and missed a watering... scared me out of it. But I'll have my highschool diploma and my Associates in Science all finished this fall, so maybe I'll have more time then and can finally get that imported satsuki... or I'll end up at a UNCW and have to sell all my trees. Who knows.

This kinda ties into that "why aren't young people into bonsai" thread- and it's not the crap that people here have been spewing about how youngsters are all "instant gratification", or lazy, or whatever they think. Complete bull; some people need to get over themselves. Let's be honest- this is an old mans (or woman's :p)hobby, and will continue to be so until prices go down significantly. No one my age can risk $600 (which is a lot to people under 25ish) on a tree, especially when they have other priorities. That, combined with time constraints and not staying at the same residence. Also a lot of millennial are now attending four-year universities and can't have trees at their dorms.


Sorry for getting a little off topic, but I feel the risk of losing an expensive or otherwise prized tree is definitely related and something to take into consideration.
As a youth leader...I feel that youth have a lot on their plate. And looking to their future. As you are. Totally makes sense into waiting until you feel you can handle the load. My biggest thing with bonsai and when I think to make a purchase. Is the amount I'm willing to lose...if it dies. There is my underlying factor of purchasing trees. Especially one I've not grasp the horticultural aspect of yet. My Neagari...had I not had wintered with success a Satsuki azalea. I would not have made that purchase. But, knowing I could handle it...made it easier. So when you feel your ready get something of less value of the species and when your sure you got the horticulture aspect nailed...you can make that larger purchase when ready with confidence and no fear.

Back out of the rabbit hole...

Back on topic...Can't imaging sharing with one of losing a tree that cost thousands of dollars. I would keep that under my hat. What a hard pill to swallow alone...let alone share.
 
Messages
1,336
Reaction score
1,917
Location
Brabant, Netherlands
You are not that old either, right Joe?

Most young people in the bonsai hobby I know of do have worth a lot of money of trees. I only know a couple of dudes about my age, but they have a collection worth a few bucks as well. I know mine is.

Maybe because young people are rare in weird hobbies like bonsai and that young people in general have holes in their hands and pockets so we have the reputation of being poor, we get a lot of stuff cheaper than old people (yup, that's you :p) as a stimulator or something so to say. Thanks!!!!!

We (most of us) don't have a mortgage/college bills (they come when the education is finished) and stuff either yet. Add still living with parents aka no rent to that and your spendable income is (almost) as much as the whole of your income.
If you have a (saturday) job and no kids that is a bonus too.

I have a car together with my little brother that costs a lot of money, but that deducted my spendable income still is about 200 euros a month because I have a saturday job and tiny handholes.
I'm about three years into bonsai now = 36*200 = 7200 euro that could've been spent on bonsai.
Which isn't, but still.

I've dug a couple of trees from hedges and gardens and stuff which all would be around 100 euro a piece if I'd sell them coming fall. That's a boxwood, three yews, a firethorn, two squamata junipers and a hornbeam, on the top of my head. That's almost a grand of trees, while they have cost me about 10 litres of diesel (3 gallons or so). I can't be the only one who digs up stuff, so building a multiple thousand dollar collection that way shouldn't be very difficult. We have no mountains or whatever close to home in the river delta, so no 'real' yamadori over here, but gardens and hedges can be and are a huge resource

And although pots are expensive, they are not so if you buy them in bigger amounts. Sometimes I buy collections of pots for about one or two euros a piece. If a couple of those are handmade or at least have some chop or look good the value of those few mostly exceeds the price I paid. Not that I'm selling those pots, but those that I don't want do go in the selling box.
Last summer I bought 105 or so pots for about 150 euro. At least 20 of those were proper quality = 7.5€ a pot. You simply don't pay that little if bought one by one.
If you can get larger amounts of decent pots, do it, if the budget permits. It pays off. Seriously.

I may be talking a lot, saying not so much but the point is that with not too much money (relatively of course, but 'not too much' for me is about 500/600 € a year) and a fair bit of luck one can come quite far in building cool collection in a short time.
High spendable income + low costs of living + free/cheap stuff = cool bonsai collection pretty quickly

Sorry about the long offtopic story, but I wanted to make clear youths these days in general don't have lives that tough. And many thanks to everyone who is enabling that!

Edit: I forgot about tools and wire and such. That shit is not cheap either. Those are the things that really take a chunk out of your wallet. Even old secondhand tool collections cost a lot of money (cheap yes, but still). But if you got pots and garden 'yamadori' anyway; trade! Trading stuff for stuff has it perks. Most of the time for both traders!
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom