The future of our planet

M. Frary

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AlainK

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How come the so called scientists, back in the 70s, who said that global warming would kill us all by the year 2000, aren't shamed out of the field?

:p

Fake news!

Just one example: look at the chart about the ozone layer. If these scientists hadn't warned the world of the danger of CFCs, we would all have been fried out long ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorofluorocarbon#Environmental_impacts

Looking forward to reading from you soon....

AK ;)
 

sparklemotion

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How come the so called scientists, back in the 70s, who said that global warming would kill us all by the year 2000, aren't shamed out of the field?

Which "so called scientists" are you referring to?

Even if they exist, do you not believe that 40+ years of additional data, advancements in measurement technology, research, and study might have helped us (humanity as a whole) understand the climate better than we did in the 70s?
 

M. Frary

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Which "so called scientists" are you referring to?

Even if they exist, do you not believe that 40+ years of additional data, advancements in measurement technology, research, and study might have helped us (humanity as a whole) understand the climate better than we did in the 70s?
Don't bother. You'll only get mixed in a cesspit of politics.
Because we all know coal is great.
The pipeline that leaks hundreds of thousands of gallons won't mar the enviornment.
Strip mining for copper and gold is way more important than unblemished land and it's wildlife.
Our president who touts himself as one of the smartest people says so. Why on earth wouldn't we believe him.
Even Syria signed onto the Paris accords.
Syria! Better than the U.S. when it comes to protecting the enviornment.
 

AlainK

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Mike, I like your latest post (but for the last line, but I could have written that myself, you know, sometimes it seems so... that you...)

BTW, I've just heard on the radio that Trump loves elephants : his sons are now allowed to kill more (not for food, but because Americans are great again probably) because it's an endangered species. :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/16/world/africa/trump-elephant-trophy.html

Wow! Perhaps some environmental-friendly commies took advantage of the Russian connection. Yes, he loves elephants. Let's slaughter them. NRA, help us, you know how to kill people, sorry how guns kill people, let's show that we can kill elephants: isn't Amerika great again?...

Waiting for the next tweet: "Kill all rhinos in North Korea and everywhere to protect them!" o_O
 
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Dav4

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I giveashit... not sure that will ever amount to anything better for the planet. 6 billion people now... waaaayyyyy too many. We've been poisoning the planet since the industrial revolution (probably were before that but we've gotten real good at it since). Unfortunately, humans are innately selfish. Back in the day- and present day in parts of Asia, Africa, and S. America- that selfishness may help you survive- how can you tell a subsistence farmer that the land he works is more important to a bird or an insect then it might be to his family, or that the animals he hunts to feed his family are threatened and should be left alone. Here in the USA, in Europe, in Hong Kong or Beijing, that selfishness might mean a different thing... like driving a BMW or Mercedes, or living in a 5,000 sq ft house or flying 1500 miles on a jet plane for holiday once or twice a year. We're pumping more oil then ever out of the ground and burning it just as fast. Don't even talk to me about how bad eating beef is for the environment http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-28409704 . Coltan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coltan, a mineral needed in cell phone production, is substantially mined in the Congo where gorillas live- I don't see people giving up their cell phones and, mark my words, gorillas will not be living in the wilds of Africa in 30 years. Same thing with orangutans and the palm oil industry but the situation is more dire there...http://fortune.com/2016/08/22/palm-oil-orangutan/ next time you by some cookies or pastries at the grocery store, check out the ingredients.

My point is that the green movement/save the planet movement is designed purely to make us all feel better while nothing/no one changes. That point to change things that would actually have made a difference was probably many decades ago anyway, and that's conservative estimate... it's a done deal. The Paris Accord will make some feel better about things, but it won't do shit for the planet, because it's changed irrevocably... whether you look at the climate or the land itself... the way it was is gone and there's no going back.
 

coh

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@GrimLore , you really post some stuff that makes me shake my head. What exactly is it that you don't give a shit about? The future of the planet? It should be obvious to anyone capable of basic thought that humans are screwing up the planet. The only question is how long will it take for the impacts to become critical. I mean, even if you don't believe in AGW and think the current warming phase is completely natural, we are doing so many other things that are detrimental to the planet and our future. Pollution, over-population, deforestation/species extinction, the list goes on.

In some ways I don't give a shit. I haven't had any children, so what happens to future generations really means nothing to me. But if you have kids, grandkids, etc...how can you be so flippant? It boggles the mind.
 

coh

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My point is that the green movement/save the planet movement is designed purely to make us all feel better while nothing/no one changes. That point to change things that would actually have made a difference was probably many decades ago anyway, and that's conservative estimate... it's a done deal. The Paris Accord will make some feel better about things, but it won't do shit for the planet, because it's changed irrevocably... whether you look at the climate or the land itself... the way it was is gone and there's no going back.

Agree and disagree with parts of your post. True, "the way it was" is gone and not coming back. But "the way it is" doesn't have to suffer the same fate. We were able to stop the destruction of the ozone layer by eliminating use of a group of chemicals. We can slow down or stop other processes as well, provided that humans stop being so selfish and short-sighted.
 

Dav4

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@GrimLore , you really post some stuff that makes me shake my head. What exactly is it that you don't give a shit about? The future of the planet? It should be obvious to anyone capable of basic thought that humans are screwing up the planet. The only question is how long will it take for the impacts to become critical. I mean, even if you don't believe in AGW and think the current warming phase is completely natural, we are doing so many other things that are detrimental to the planet and our future. Pollution, over-population, deforestation/species extinction, the list goes on.

In some ways I don't give a shit. I haven't had any children, so what happens to future generations really means nothing to me. But if you have kids, grandkids, etc...how can you be so flippant? It boggles the mind.
I can't imagine a world without wild gorillas or orangutans... but it will be a reality in just a few decades.
 

Dav4

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Agree and disagree with parts of your post. True, "the way it was" is gone and not coming back. But "the way it is" doesn't have to suffer the same fate. We were able to stop the destruction of the ozone layer by eliminating use of a group of chemicals. We can slow down or stop other processes as well, provided that humans stop being so selfish and short-sighted.
That's essentially the problem... good luck fixing it. Tell most people exactly what I stated above about the future for great apes in the wild, then tell them all they have to do to make a HUGE difference is give up their I-phone and processed baked goods like Girl Scout cookies.... how many people will actually do it... my guess is not nearly enough.
 

GrimLore

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But if you have kids, grandkids, etc...how can you be so flippant? It boggles the mind.

I don't and my children, grand children, and two great grand children(so far) don't either...

WHY?

Because we understand that the Earth goes through cycles no matter what we do and has wiped out most everything and started over...

Do we use the most energy efficient lights, fuels, yes! So does most of the United States of America - for the record we are the BEST at conservation AND limiting air pollution. We have no control over anything other then that, trying to is like "pissing up the falls".

Cut and dry statement -

I am older and noticed over the years that the people that bitch about what "everyone" does to the planet are the same people that drink bottled water that has an expiration date on it... I drink bottled water that does not... I would appreciate knowing this Nation does great with conservancy that other countries stop including us in the "so called" problem and start following our example. Either way, like the wind, we cannot predict or control it.

Grimmy
 

AlainK

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And by the way, you do know what your government (I mean Trump's family and -great- friends) is making a deal with, don't you not?

"The Zimbabwean government, it added, was contributing to efforts to combat poaching and working with partners to improve elephant management."

Well, Zimbabwe doesn't have the nuclear weapon, it's still a safe playground for some I suppose.
 

americanelmer

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Climate change-- Yes.

Caused by Humans or their activities -- NO.

It is all due to that Big Shiny Object in the Sky.
How do you explain the fact the the air temp. can change 50,60 degrees (or more) in some places in one day? And how all the climate changers have been wrong in their predictions since they started making them in the 70's?

A_E
 

AlainK

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Caused by Humans or their activities -- NO.

Wake up.

"And how all the climate changers have been wrong in their predictions since they started making them in the 70's?"

Firstly, as has been said before, the data and analysis made 45 years ago were just the beginning.

Secondly, if you believe in what those who claim data and anylises made 45 years ago are still valid, you're a dinosaur.
 
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coh

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I don't and my children, grand children, and two great grand children(so far) don't either...
Not sure what this means...you do have kids? Or don't?

WHY?

Because we understand that the Earth goes through cycles no matter what we do and has wiped out most everything and started over...

Sure but the time scales that geological processes operate on are much longer than the time scale that humans are imposing on the planet. So instead of having maybe thousands or tens of thousands of years before the next ice age or supervolcano eruption or asteroid impact, we are pushing ourselves toward a much smaller time window to figure out a way to save ourselves. Whether that means travel to another planet, or something we haven't thought of yet.

Pulling out the "earth cycles" card is just another excuse to kick the can down the road.
 
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