Tanuki/Phoenix graft -- remove tissue?

[ysrgrathe]

I have a couple of texts that discuss Tanuki with larch or cedar and indicate that the tissue should be stripped on the side facing the graft -- presumably so that the live plant does not outgrow the deadwood and split it or pull away from it. However, I have found mixed messages regarding the treatment of Juniper.

There is a single comment in this post that advocates removing the tissue on the inward side of the graft:
http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/brass-and-tanuki.3302/#post-44541

I found a ton of references that make no mention of removing tissue:
http://www.bonsailearningcenter.com/IMAGES/PDF Files/tanuki.pdf
http://www.buffalobonsaisociety.com/PhoenixGraft.html
http://www.bonsaibasho.com/micromarket/#/library/library/a116
etc.

I found it somewhat humorous that in the bonsainut thread stainless steel is rated as the best fastener, whereas link #2 claims this will definitely kill the plant. I suspect both stainless and brass are good choices.

What do you think?

 

[aml1014]

Steel is mildly toxic to junipers.

Aaron

 

[sorce]

Tanuki is mildly toxic to my soul.

Sorce

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Don't know about "toxicity", brass is what I've seen done.

If you are fitting a juniper into a narrow groove, Tom - Tachigi - his comment about the Juniper growing in diameter, and forcing its way out is accurate. In the areas where the trunk will be in a groove, strip the bark and cambium off to exactly match the edge of the groove. Then as the trunk grows, the bark will roll over the dead wood. If you don't, the bark will thicken on the side of the trunk against the dead wood, eventually popping the scion out of the groove, or if secured really tight, splitting the wood. Unplanned splitting can look unnatural, and if it pops out it will also look unnatural, it might even reveal the screws used.

Doing a Tanuki well enough that it isn't obvious is not easy. It takes some fine carving and attention to detail. That is why when I see a Tanuki done well enough that you have difficulty detecting its a tanuki, I really respect the work involved. Getting a Tanuki to look natural may take as long as developing nursery stock, 5 to 10 years is not unusual. But done well they can look great. Go for it.

 

[Woodland Spirit]

This is not cheating unless you try to pass it off as something that it is not.

I want to try a few of these.
I am in the mode of experimentation, trying to find my style.

Is it possible for the tree to eventually heal over the foreign deadwood?

 

[GrimLore]

Is it possible for the tree to eventually heal over the foreign deadwood?

The purpose here is to have the dead wood and the live wood to be of similar species and represent a lot of dead wood. Scraping the bark off at the point of contact is to stop the two pieces from separating looking natural. The bark grow over the dead wood completely? Possible but man that wood be a 2 - 5 generation project on any reasonable sized planting and counter productive as you want both live and dead to appear as one.

Grimmy

 

[Woodland Spirit]

I'm going to make this even more controversial!
I'm going to use a chili plant in one!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I'm going to make this even more controversial!
I'm going to use a chili plant in one!

Really?????????

There are many, many better choices, but its your planet, you rule there.

A ficus would be a good choice. Hundreds of other woody species are a good choice. Chili does not produce true wood.

 

[leatherback]

Chili does not produce true wood.

On top of that they are very short lived. A few years the most. S the devel;opmenttime to create a convinving merger is longer than the life expectancy. Feels counterproductive.

 

[Woodland Spirit]

I was joking. I thought about saying I'd put a plastic top on it.

I am planning a few variations of tanuki using things like ficus, rusian olive etc.

This isn't my favorite type of bonsai, I prefer the tree to be all it's own but it is worth doing.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Typed conversation does not convey humor, irony, or satire well. I missed the joke, but all is cool.

Don't diminish Tanuki, to produce a good one takes real skill. Don't bother doing a Tanuki if you are going to use inferior material. Think about the end result, will the species used look like a logical tree with the deadwood? Will the texture of the scion wood's eventual bark be compatible with the deadwood? Will the scion wood grow too rapidly and overwhelm the deadwood? It takes a lot of work and time to do a good Tanuki, if you start with a poor choice for the scion, it will never accomplish the goal. Tanuki is a skilled craft/art to do well.

The only issue is whether a Tanuki belongs in a bonsai show or not. It is a technique, just as grafting is a technique. Its is not inferior to bonsai, the big debate is whether it is "allowed" at a particular show venue. The answer is simply read the show rules for the particular show you want to exhibit at. If the show committee rules for a particular show say Tanuki are okay, then its okay. If show rules prohibit Tanuki, don't take the tree to that show. Always be honest about how it was created, and appreciate it as its own unique craft unto itself.