Switchback Trunk Juni

[thomas22]

I've had this juniper laying around in a large terracotta pot for a while now and decided to re-pot in a box in early spring. The first pic is how it looked for a long time prior to repot.

It responded so well after the re-pot I decided to do some work on it this weekend. I reduced the length of the trunk, cleaned and thinned the foliage, lime sulfered the dead wood, and removed the flaky bark. I though about wiring but I decided not to rush it. A year from this spring it will get a proper bonsai pot and hopefully be a nice tree.

The carving is compliments of the termites. I think it needs to be tilted up like the second pic and I also think the last section of trunk will be removed or jinned (last Pic) in the future.
Any comments or advice is welcome.

 

[0soyoung]

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

When wiring i would try to separate top and some bottom branches. Tree will be happy you take time to spread the work!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Have you thought about standing it upright into a literati?

 

[sorce]

Have you thought about standing it upright into a literati?
View attachment 123680

I was thinking about how it would be hard to bring the eye back in from the right....

This is a good solution.

Sorce

 

[thomas22]

View attachment 123669

Not bad Oso. You want to keep the canopy lower than the trunk and closer to the base correct?

Have you thought about standing it upright into a literati?
View attachment 123680

I don't know how I missed this possibility but I haven't thought of going upright. I think you may be onto something. The only part that concerns me is right at the base where the trunk will exit the soil. Will it work and look believable with what I have? I will play around with it in the next few days and let you know.

 

[thomas22]

I am seriously considering going upright very similar to @Brian Van Fleet recommendation. I have thought about it a lot and the even did my own vert. The tree is healthy are ready to go if I am. Here is one last look and opinions are very welcome. The first pic is the tree today. The second is my vert. There will be some dead wood envolved but hard to do in the vert. Should I go upright?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

If you DID want to keep the current planting angle, you have to make sure you bring your apex back to the right. The trunk line at the apex should mirror the line at the nebari. Something like:

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Also note in Brian's virt, the apex of his literati goes up at the end. It's really important. Your virt makes it look like it's hanging down. Also your virt goes past vertical. Brian's planting angle is much better. It needs to lean a little away from the apex otherwise the design is unbalanced.

The more I look at your "mancave" photo... Hollywood junipers are far too under-rated. I love 'em!

Plus... you could jack around the planting angle without going full vertical...

 

[thomas22]

If you DID want to keep the current planting angle, you have to make sure you bring your apex back to the right. The trunk line at the apex should mirror the line at the nebari. Something like:

View attachment 138541

I like this idea and vert but you are not going to make this easy on me are you. Good tip on the apex.

Also note in Brian's virt, the apex of his literati goes up at the end. It's really important. Your virt makes it look like it's hanging down. Also your virt goes past vertical. Brian's planting angle is much better. It needs to lean a little away from the apex otherwise the design is unbalanced.

The more I look at your "mancave" photo... Hollywood junipers are far too under-rated. I love 'em!

I see what you mean about the apex coming up for a bit. These two post have been helpful.

I do not have any Hollywood. I do have many Prostrata Junipers like this one. I inherited some and also bought some at local nurseries.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I like the potting angle changes...as a semi cascade...it lost something along the way that an angle change dramatically adds to the piece.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I do not have any Hollywood. I do have many Prostrata Junipers like this one. I inherited some and also bought some at local nurseries.

I've never seen a prostrata that looks like that unless it has been grafted with shimpaku branches. I looks like the spitting image of Hollywood junipers that I have... I'd say it's a keeper So green and healthy....

 

[thomas22]

I've never seen a prostrata that looks like that unless it has been grafted with shimpaku branches. I looks like the spitting image of Hollywood junipers that I have... I'd say it's a keeper So green and healthy....

Are we talking about the tree in this thread or my avatar pic. You mentioned my "mancave" photo so I'm not sure what tree you were referring to. I'm familiar with Hollywood. This is one juniper type I can walk through a nursery and identify as Hollywood. However, the several junipers that I own and believe are Prostrata I cannot be 100% sure. I know San Jose is a close relative and can get mature foliage that is a possibility.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

The mancave photo is the one of the tree in your back patio with the mancave sign in the background (I think 2nd to the last one you posted). It shows very tight, very green mature juniper foliage.

As far as these juniper cultivars go, they're all closely related. Shimpaku, Hollywood, San Jose and Prostrata are all cultivars of Juniperus chinensis, which is why you can graft branches back and forth so easily. Hollywood (Juniperus chinensis "torulosa") is probably the fastest growing /largest of the lot, and will never (that I am aware of) throw juvenile needle foliage, while Prostrata and San Jose will typically be 100% needle foliage until they get older / larger. Even then, when pruned heavily, they will automatically revert to needle foliage. I have never seen a Prostrata with mature foliage as tight as your tree - but that just means I need to get out more

 

[0soyoung]

If you DID want to keep the current planting angle, you have to make sure you bring your apex back to the right. The trunk line at the apex should mirror the line at the nebari.

So, trees with a zig are not allowed, they must also have a zag? In other words, one can have a slant or a zig-zag, but nothing in between?

It is the first time I've heard such a 'rule' and it disturbs me. So much so that I couldn't 'fuggitaboutit'. I suppose if the image must be dynamic - is this the context?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

So, trees with a zig are not allowed, they must also have a zag? In other words, one can have a slant or a zig-zag, but nothing in between?

It is the first time I've heard such a 'rule' and it disturbs me. So much so that I couldn't 'fuggitaboutit'. I suppose if the image must be dynamic - is this the context?

Not at all. You can break this rule... but it needs to make natural sense. Trees grow upwards - ALWAYS. If a tree cannot grow upwards because of environment or injury or competition or a moose eating it, it will find another way to grow upwards. That is why you will NEVER see a bonsai with an apex pointing down. It would be unnatural. Even cascades are trees that are styled to appear to be trees on cliffs - always reaching upwards and outwards, but being pulled down by the weight of their limbs and gravity. The apex of a cascade ALWAYS points up - because that is how trees grow. The apex of a literati always points up for the same reason.

If a tree has a nebari pointing one way because the tree as a seedling was being blown by the wind, and the branches all face one way because they were blown by the wind, you don't have an apex facing the other direction because it would be unnatural.

So the zig and zag rule tends to apply the same way. If a tree starts out growing one direction and then something happens (like a big branch falls on it and almost crushes it, or it gets crushed by an avalanche), when if recovers from the injury it will usually grow in the same direction as it was growing as a seedling. It is a "rule" and can be broken... but only if there is a reason to break it that makes sense in the eye of the viewer. Because otherwise the design will appear unbalanced and unnatural.

 

[thomas22]

The mancave photo is the one of the tree in your back patio with the mancave sign in the background (I think 2nd to the last one you posted). It shows very tight, very green mature juniper foliage.

As far as these juniper cultivars go, they're all closely related. Shimpaku, Hollywood, San Jose and Prostrata are all cultivars of Juniperus chinensis, which is why you can graft branches back and forth so easily. Hollywood (Juniperus chinensis "torulosa") is probably the fastest growing /largest of the lot, and will never (that I am aware of) throw juvenile needle foliage, while Prostrata and San Jose will typically be 100% needle foliage until they get older / larger. Even then, when pruned heavily, they will automatically revert to needle foliage. I have never seen a Prostrata with mature foliage as tight as your tree - but that just means I need to get out more

Most of my Prostrata have tight foliage like this. It think it has a lot to do with keeping the foliage clean of weak foliage and having space for air and light around each strong foliage tuff. I say that because the foliage was never tight until about 3 years ago when I started routinely cleaning out the week foliage. Or I could just be lucky.

 

[thomas22]

I finally got around to picking a angle and doing the first wiring on this tree. I am about 90% happy with it. I will post better picks in the next few days. I feel it needs more deadwood mixed in with the foliage but that will come in time. What do you think about the left branch that crosses the trunk? I didn't plan that before I started but I thought it worked.

 

[sorce]

Those little hints of OLD jin and DW is just enough IMO..
New canopy jins are going to make it young again.

The crossed branch looks akward bare there, but with foliage, it'll look great. Maybe just move it up a hair so its just out of a perpendicular cross.

Switchback..! It makes you go up to canopy first, switchback to the loop, and back down.

Thats good for me cuz going all the way up the loop would get exhausting by the way back down.

You know.....cutting it back a bit so your silhouette stays over the trunkline, but doesnt cross it...that might be the best detail.

GEW! Gangster Either Way!

Sorce

 

[Potawatomi13]

Looked better with real bark!