Sumac questions...

[HorseloverFat]

Hello, friends.
I have been flirting with the idea of cultivating Sumac for a little while now. I, personally, love the structure and personality of these plants. (And also have fond childhood memories of fantasy surrounding them)

Every time I began to “get my feet wet” while collecting them, I ran into many difficulties, as well as learning some new things.

I then decided that perhaps starting from seed would alleviate some of said difficulties while allowing for more control. I’m familiar with the processes involved in making this happen.

My question is: If I were to collect Sumac seeds NOW (early spring for me), would they still be viable? And if so, would the stratification process be overlooked, or would the seeds still need the scarification AND another “season” of cold?

Also, any collection advice would be appreciated.. they seem to operate without an abundance of fine roots, surviving mostly through DEEPLY established feeders...I also think that “tracing clones” back to the mother seems tedious.

If I wanted to remove a single tree from the “network” I have no idea how well they could handle the separation.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I found sumac very easy to collect in sandy soils. In clay soils, much more difficult. Almost any size root fragment will produce a sprout within a month or two of harvest.

Sumac, especially Rhus typhinia, which I have experience with, are dioecious, separate male and female trees. They also form large single clone colonies. So collect one of each.

In spring, the seed still in seed heads has not been stratified. Take the seed, and rub it between 2 pieces of sand paper. Scrape through the outer coat, until you see the light colored inner part of the seed. You only need to sand through one part of the seed coat, this will allow water to get in. Then plant seed. Sometimes sanded down seed will germinate right away, the rest will germinate the following spring.

I think if sumac more as Sanyasou, a category of kusamono, where the kusamono becomes the focal point of a display, rather than traditional bonsai. The autumn colors are stunning.

 

[HorseloverFat]

I found sumac very easy to collect in sandy soils. In clay soils, much more difficult. Almost any size root fragment will produce a sprout within a month or two of harvest.

Sumac, especially Rhus typhinia, which I have experience with, are dioecious, separate male and female trees. They also form large single clone colonies. So collect one of each.

In spring, the seed still in seed heads has not been stratified. Take the seed, and rub it between 2 pieces of sand paper. Scrape through the outer coat, until you see the light colored inner part of the seed. You only need to sand through one part of the seed coat, this will allow water to get in. Then plant seed. Sometimes sanded down seed will germinate right away, the rest will germinate the following spring.

I think if sumac more as Sanyasou, a category of kusamono, where the kusamono becomes the focal point of a display, rather than traditional bonsai. The autumn colors are stunning.

That response LITERALLY tackled every one of my questions in one well-directed, knowledgeable swoop!

Thanks, as always, Leo.

Sincerely,
Other Leo.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Follow-up question;

Are the females the specimen with the smoother, lighter colored bark? (I collected one of each, I was just curious)

Also, is the gender if new seedling predetermined by the corresponding gender of the trees producing? Or is it just random sexes like most?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Sex is random, male trees produce no seed, just flowers and pollen, female trees produce flowers followed by see. The sex of seedlings is roughly 50:50 as far as I know. In the landscape, at least where I have been, the sex of trees, seems 50:50 if you take into account that they form large mono-clonal patches. The sex of patches of trees is roughly 50:50. As far as I know. I have not looked for scientific articles on sumac.

The only way to tell male from female is by the flowers, in spring, or easier still, female trees will have big clusters of seed remaining on the tree from middle of summer through most of the winter. Often you can still find seed clusters in spring. Bark seems the same to me regardless of sex of the tree. Female trees have smooth to blotchy slightly rough bark, same as males. Appearance of bark seems to correlate more to the age of the trunk rather than anything else.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Sex is random, male trees produce no seed, just flowers and pollen, female trees produce flowers followed by see. The sex of seedlings is roughly 50:50 as far as I know. In the landscape, at least where I have been, the sex of trees, seems 50:50 if you take into account that they form large mono-clonal patches. The sex of patches of trees is roughly 50:50. As far as I know. I have not looked for scientific articles on sumac.

The only way to tell male from female is by the flowers, in spring, or easier still, female trees will have big clusters of seed remaining on the tree from middle of summer through most of the winter. Often you can still find seed clusters in spring. Bark seems the same to me regardless of sex of the tree. Female trees have smooth to blotchy slightly rough bark, same as males. Appearance of bark seems to correlate more to the age of the trunk rather than anything else.

Awesome! Thank you! As far as everything that I’ve read/discussed so far, it’s been 50:50, as you stated was the same in your observation.

Once I “got down to business” I learned a deal more bout the root structure (I had fun).

It almost seems like they’d be able to produce from root cuttings. However I do not know for certain, as Jack Kramer doesn’t discuss Rhus in the particular text on root cuttings that I am looking at.

 

[Forsoothe!]

I have a cluster of 'Tiger Eyes' and collected 6 or 7 that ran too far outboard of the forest, all between 1 & 2 feet tall last summer and they all lived through winter, so I think there's nothing to it. I just loosened the area near each with a digging fork and jiggled them to see where they were underground and chopped them off with a spade.

 

[HorseloverFat]

I have a cluster of 'Tiger Eyes' and collected 6 or 7 that ran too far outboard of the forest, all between 1 & 2 feet tall last summer and they all lived through winter, so I think there's nothing to it. I just loosened the area near each with a digging fork and jiggled them to see where they were underground and chopped them off with a spade.

I collected two this year (well, not Tiger Eye) about the same size as you described...They are just “swelling” here. We will see what happens! I should probably start a handful from seed, also.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I have been trying to eradicate sumac from our blueberry fields since we got the place end of 2015. Root cuttings will indeed work, as every fragment of root left in the ground when yanking out trunks of sumac tends to produce a new tree. I potted up a piece of root the diameter of my little finger, in just a month or so, the exposed end of the root had buds and leafed out. They are a "weed",

Side note. When scouting fields for blueberries, the Ag Extension Agent was walking with me, and he pointed out that where the sumac and sassafras grew together, odds were good the soil was acidic enough blueberries. But he still recommended a soil test before investing in planting. Sumac is tolerant of a wide range of soil, but is happiest in acidic soils. Sassafras is more obligated to acid soils. So the two together was a good indicator. Each alone might not be.