Sudden temp drop

[Mississippi]

This will be my first winter, I have about ten trees- junipers, Chinese elm, kingsville boxwood, cryptomeria ,a nice shimpaku and a nice trident. We have been around 85-90f for highs and no lower than 50f ( mostly high 60s to mid 70s for lows ), we are forecast for a couple of nights at or below freezing before we return to mild temps. Planning on bringing trees into unheated sunroom for the colder nights, shuffling them back out to filtered sun during the days. Would appreciate any thoughts or insights, I have a small radiator heater that I can run on low that will keep the temps a little above freezing.? I know some of my trees are hardy and need cold temps, I’m just concerned about sudden change. Thanks everyone!

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

Leave the cold hardy trees outdoors, no need to bring them in. Trees will be fine outside with all their friends and the rest of nature. Only trees you should bring inside are Tropical trees.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I’m next door and am only bringing in my ficus nerifolia. Everything else (similar trees to your collection) will be just fine. Trees need to be exposed to their native winter temps. This cold snap should really bring on the fall colors.

 

[jonfromchicago]

Your temperate trees should be fine outside . You can put your trees on the ground/floor and huddle them up just in case. The ground should warm up the roots slightly.

 

[rockm]

We're forecast to have freezing temps for three nights in a row starting tonight. Temps are only forecast to reach into the 50's during the day. That means pots aren't going to warm up all that much in the daytime. Not a great situation, but not bringing them in. I have Japanese Maples, Trident maples, cedar elm, bald cypress, live oak, Chinese elm, satsuki azalea, boxwood.

I'm planning on moving most all my trees from the benches to the ground. Those that are too heavy to move onto the ground (over 100 lbs and hard to get back UP off the ground) will get their pots covered with heavy towels.

One of the most critical things you can do during this period is to make sure the soil in the pots is WET. Dry soil and freezing temps will kill roots. Water helps insulate roots from freezing. Use that to help protect your trees, water them WELL each night to make sure the soil has maximum moisture. There isn't a danger of too much moisture during such a short three-day long cold snap. The benefits of insulation outweigh any concern of soggy soil.

 

[penumbra]

Its just the weather................happens every year.

 

[rockm]

Its just the weather................happens every year.

Except, according to may reports, this is the coldest October since 1996. The freeze is two weeks early compared to years past.

 

[penumbra]

Except, according to may reports, this is the coldest October since 1996. The freeze is two weeks early compared to years past.

Actually, that is one of the more conservative estimates I have heard about this early bout of cold.
I understand that, but weather is weather. And you understand that.
Years ago early frost and cold weather was the norm here. Then it got warmer and people would disregard the weathers past. This may not be 'normal' for present but it is completely normal.
Many of the plants we grow in this area today were not grown here when I was a child. I realize that a lot of this is because of new cultivars that are more resilient, but weather has progressively been getting warmer over the past several decades. I am ok if it swings back the other way for awhile. My tried and true plants are fine and those that I gamble with are............a gamble. That's OK. My tropicals have been in for 2-3 weeks now because I was prepared for the possibility and didn't want to push the envelope. My outdoors plants are usually targeted for Christmas for winter quartering. This year I targeted Thanksgiving. I take no credit for forecasting the weather and I will take no credit to a 'feeling', it just seemed prudent.
Years ago, during a period of intense and extended rain I was complaining about, a Buddhist Monk told me that the rain was not about me. That resonated with me on several levels.
I do realize that this fickle weather is inconvenient for many people, self included, but I am ok with that, its not about me.

A side note: My wife has kept a gardening calendar for 33 year now. It is interesting to look back at all the things we have forgotten.
Weather is weather, it happens all the time.

 

[rockm]

Actually, that is one of the more conservative estimates I have heard about this early bout of cold.
I understand that, but weather is weather. And you understand that.
Years ago early frost and cold weather was the norm here. Then it got warmer and people would disregard the weathers past. This may not be 'normal' for present but it is completely normal.
Many of the plants we grow in this area today were not grown here when I was a child. I realize that a lot of this is because of new cultivars that are more resilient, but weather has progressively been getting warmer over the past several decades. I am ok if it swings back the other way for awhile. My tried and true plants are fine and those that I gamble with are............a gamble. That's OK. My tropicals have been in for 2-3 weeks now because I was prepared for the possibility and didn't want to push the envelope. My outdoors plants are usually targeted for Christmas for winter quartering. This year I targeted Thanksgiving. I take no credit for forecasting the weather and I will take no credit to a 'feeling', it just seemed prudent.
Years ago, during a period of intense and extended rain I was complaining about, a Buddhist Monk told me that the rain was not about me. That resonated with me on several levels.
I do realize that this fickle weather is inconvenient for many people, self included, but I am ok with that, its not about me.

A side note: My wife has kept a gardening calendar for 33 year now. It is interesting to look back at all the things we have forgotten.
Weather is weather, it happens all the time.

Well, of course weather is weather. but in the last 30 years there have been significant changes in patterns--towards warmer. Those of us with non-native temperate zone species have to be very aware of stuff like this. For T\the cedar elms, live oak and even bald cypress I have had for the past 25-30 years stuff like this can make a huge difference. Cedar elm in full leaf when temps hit 29 or lower are not all that reliably hardy on the bench and out of protection. As November approaches, we may have early freezes that dip into the 25 F killing zone for many of my trees. I have reliably put my trees under mulch and into storage at Thanksgiving. If we get deep cold (as we used to--I used to start skiing at Massanutten just after Thanksgiving 45 years ago.) in early Nov., I'll have to bump that up.

Sure it's just weather, but sometimes she's a bitch.

 

[penumbra]

Well, of course weather is weather. but in the last 30 years there have been significant changes in patterns--towards warmer. Those of us with non-native temperate zone species have to be very aware of stuff like this. For T\the cedar elms, live oak and even bald cypress I have had for the past 25-30 years stuff like this can make a huge difference. Cedar elm in full leaf when temps hit 29 or lower are not all that reliably hardy on the bench and out of protection. As November approaches, we may have early freezes that dip into the 25 F killing zone for many of my trees. I have reliably put my trees under mulch and into storage at Thanksgiving. If we get deep cold (as we used to--I used to start skiing at Massanutten just after Thanksgiving 45 years ago.) in early Nov., I'll have to bump that up.

Sure it's just weather, but sometimes she's a bitch.

You are preaching to the choir my friend, but still all of this is true and I am sure there are many people here who have not learned this yet.

 

[Mississippi]

Actually, that is one of the more conservative estimates I have heard about this early bout of cold.
I understand that, but weather is weather. And you understand that.
Years ago early frost and cold weather was the norm here. Then it got warmer and people would disregard the weathers past. This may not be 'normal' for present but it is completely normal.
Many of the plants we grow in this area today were not grown here when I was a child. I realize that a lot of this is because of new cultivars that are more resilient, but weather has progressively been getting warmer over the past several decades. I am ok if it swings back the other way for awhile. My tried and true plants are fine and those that I gamble with are............a gamble. That's OK. My tropicals have been in for 2-3 weeks now because I was prepared for the possibility and didn't want to push the envelope. My outdoors plants are usually targeted for Christmas for winter quartering. This year I targeted Thanksgiving. I take no credit for forecasting the weather and I will take no credit to a 'feeling', it just seemed prudent.
Years ago, during a period of intense and extended rain I was complaining about, a Buddhist Monk told me that the rain was not about me. That resonated with me on several levels.
I do realize that this fickle weather is inconvenient for many people, self included, but I am ok with that, its not about me.

A side note: My wife has kept a gardening calendar for 33 year now. It is interesting to look back at all the things we have forgotten.
Weather is weather, it happens all the time.i Realize that weather

Its just the weather................happens every year.

except when it happened last year I didn’t have these little trees I’m trying to learn about!

 

[Maiden69]

We are supposed to dip into the 30's tonight and tomorrow night... ficus and luma are going into the garage for those nights. Then back out. As long as we are close to 50 degrees I keep them out, as it is only for a few hours between 1 am to 7 am when the sun comes out and then it is back to 70's +. They will probably end up inside the garage mid November once the night temps are steadily below mid 40's. Lost my nicest luma this year... not again if I can prevent it

 

[namnhi]

T

Its just the weather................happens

This sounds like you had enough of this crazy weather we been having lately

 

[penumbra]

T

This sounds like you had enough of this crazy weather we been having lately

Yes, I would say so. I have seen pretty crazy weather changes over many years. And what I have seen is rather the proverbial molehill compared to what others have had to deal with.
Fifty years of landscaping and growing plants gives you some perspective.

 

[namnhi]

Yes, I would say so. I have seen pretty crazy weather changes over many years. And what I have seen is rather the proverbial molehill compared to what others have had to deal with.
Fifty years of landscaping and growing plants gives you some perspective.

Going back to the monk statement about rain is not about you. I try to live by that everyday but at time you feel like the World is against you. I try to not let anything I can't change influence my feelings.... after all we can't really do anything with weather.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

This will be my first winter, I have about ten trees- junipers, Chinese elm, kingsville boxwood, cryptomeria ,a nice shimpaku and a nice trident. We have been around 85-90f for highs and no lower than 50f ( mostly high 60s to mid 70s for lows ), we are forecast for a couple of nights at or below freezing before we return to mild temps. Planning on bringing trees into unheated sunroom for the colder nights, shuffling them back out to filtered sun during the days. Would appreciate any thoughts or insights, I have a small radiator heater that I can run on low that will keep the temps a little above freezing.? I know some of my trees are hardy and need cold temps, I’m just concerned about sudden change. Thanks everyone!

It takes several weeks, not just a few nights, weeks of temps below 45F and above 32 F at night to force a tree to shift its metabolism to "winter dormancy" and related cold hardiness. Warmth undoes this accumulation of winter hardiness. But because this time of year night is a few hours longer than day, the accumulation of cold hardiness usually works out. It is important that if you bring a tree "inside" to protect it from below freezing, that it is a cool as possible while still above freezing. Left indoors at 70 F for 48 hours can undo a month long process of adapting to cold. So if at all possible keep your outdoor hardy trees outdoors, or cool, below 45 F.

The species you listed all should be fully winter hardy in Mississippi once adapted to the cold. Once they have had a couple weeks of below 45 F nights stop moving them to avoid cold snaps, they will be fine. Just set them on the ground, in the shade. After ground has frozen, mulch with a few inches of leaves, and forget them for the winter.

Sorry I can not be precise on length of time needed for cold tolerance to develop. I do know from having in the past owned a blueberry farm how quickly frost tolerance can be undone. The entire SW Michigan lost 75% of its fruit crop in 2012 due to 3 nights of 65F weather during January, then a return to +1 or+2 F immediately after. Flower buds freeze killed, though for most species enough vegetative buds survived that orchards did not have to be replanted. Maybe 50% vegetative buds survived.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

So because you have not had temps in the 40's, give your trees a little protection from freezing, but keep them as cold as possible. Once they get a week or more of below 45 F nights, stop moving them around, and just let them get a frost or freeze. The species you listed are all hardy to around +10 F or colder, so don't worry unless its getting colder than +10 F. Then moving to an unheated shed might be a good idea. Unheated is best.

 

[Mississippi]

So because you have not had temps in the 40's, give your trees a little protection from freezing, but keep them as cold as possible. Once they get a week or more of below 45 F nights, stop moving them around, and just let them get a frost or freeze. The species you listed are all hardy to around +10 F or colder, so don't worry unless its getting colder than +10 F. Then moving to an unheated shed might be a good idea. Unheated is best.

Thank you Leo, pretty much what I was thinking. After they have had enough time under 45 to go dormant, will I still need to water when the soil is feeling a little dry? What does watering look like when dormant?

 

[namnhi]

Thank you Leo, pretty much what I was thinking. After they have had enough time under 45 to go dormant, will I still need to water when the soil is feeling a little dry? What does watering look like when dormant?

Here is how you watering the plant. LOL
Joking aside, you should keep the soil moist even when the plan it in dormant.

 

[rockm]

Thank you Leo, pretty much what I was thinking. After they have had enough time under 45 to go dormant, will I still need to water when the soil is feeling a little dry? What does watering look like when dormant?

You have to keep an eye on trees in winter. Water when needed, as you do in the summer. You won't be watering much at all, however, since trees aren't using all that much water when dormant...Frozen soil doesn't need to be watered, BTW. Up here I can rely on winter rain and occasional snow (Which is the BEST overwintering ally there is--insulates and provides constant moisture.

Here are some of my trees in winter storage--their pots are under six to seven inches of mulch under the snow...