Starting to research doing a group display

Rob_phillips

Rob_phillips

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Hi there I'm thinking about starting a group display of some sort next year as another project to get stuck into, but I want to go about doing it properly so I'm going to start my research now first by seeking advice on here and also on the net to make sure I'm ready for it next year.
I was thinking about using some kind of native deciduous species to the uk like European beech Fagus sylvatica. So can anyone point me in the right direction on all the processes needed along with choosing the right species, how many trees would be best for most group displays as i was thinking 5 to 7 keep it an odd number.

Also what age tree to use as obviously younger trees are cheaper but not necessarily better and if I choose younger trees should I grow them out separately in there own training pots and style them slightly and give them a few seasons by themselves first or should I just put them together this year and let them grow and style them together in there group.

Also maybe some help on What soil medium and container would suit. Thanks for reading and any advice or pointing in the right direction would be very helpful.
 
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I think this....and I am no expert:
- Odd numbers yes. 5-7 is okay but I think you'll be happier with more....at least 9-11 may be better. When you Google search forest plantings. Look at the number of trees used in the photos you like best. That might help demonstrate the tree quantity you want to target for your project. To many trees though does not look comforting or enticing to me....to crowded for me. You'll find a number that works for you.
- Bonsaiempire.com has a good forest example and story. The trunk close ups are good viewing. Look at angles, closeness, size and location variation...to give you ideas for your forest.
- Bonsaitonight.com has a good helpful article on forest plantings as well as good ground level root flare visuals that make it all work.
- Bonsai4me.com has excellent tips on forest anchoring...and forests.
- Trunk diameters, even though these are still sticks, need to vary.
- There should be at least 1 tree with a thick diameter. I like 3 thicker myself.
- Research, Google search, Bonsai Forest Planting. Check images. You'll find plenty.
- Some need to be shorter...these are in the distance or side at times.
- A good form of research is a walk through the woods. Examine tree groups. Don't think heights...look at the diameters, placements by nature and closeness of trees. Examine how comfortable your eyes feel with certain balances. Take trunk group photos for reference....I found the photos very helpful.
- Closeness is a key component to me. Sometimes bonsai forests are spread out to much. They look like...their just stuck in the ground...sticks. They don't convey the forest feeling to me. Compacting as much as you can will showcase the forest better for your project.
- Angle tilt at edges. Okay. Personally I prefer a tight forest group with all trees nearly straight. Not to many forests around me have those severe angled trees.
- I think trees should be mostly straight trunked. Trunks with bends, angles and curves don't seem to fit in a forest group to me. Trees reach straight up for the sun. Only 1 or 2 trees on the outside bend slightly to reach the sun. Some forest plantlings look as though they are just on a big mounded hill....creating a great curve...but looking unnatural. Not to my liking....it's just me.
- Beech make good forests. The Beech in my are have leaves way to big. But I've seen excellent Beech forests. The best, to me, have at least 1 to 3 trees of decent thickness, with 1 of those 3 being the thickest tree in the forest.
- Some of the Japanese Maples make excellent forests. You'll find them when researching. I've seen nice Cedar forests too. Elms are good....if trunks are fairly straight. Larch forests can be very nice.
-While you're looking at real forests notice that really cool gnarled up trunks don't usually show up in a forest unless something terrible happened to the thickest tree...such as a lightning strike. I have seen cool forest plantings where 1 or 2 bigger trees were "damaged by nature" and the result was many smaller diameter trunks growing around them...like if growth came from the roots of the bigger trees.
- Funny. I started a forest but only had 10 trees. In trimming, pruning tops, I took one top of thickness and planted it flat on the forest floor as a fallen 11th tree. It worked just fine to me. I conditioned the fallen "trunk" by putting it in a box with a moss bed. The moss contributed greatly to the image and broke down the tree so it looked like it had fallen years earlier. Broken off branches, close to the trunk...no ramifications, started to look like the natural result of weather and breakage. I had fun.
- I grew my forest trees separately in plastic nursery pots...I should have used pond baskets though. I tangled some really close together in the same plastic pots too. These trees would be closest together and I wanted the roots to begin to work together.
- I started a forest in a box first. I used a low-sided box...like 2-3". I did not go to a forest pot right away. There would be to much movement I would want to make happen before committing to a pot right away....and those forest pots are not necessarily low-cost. The box let me move things around, add trees, change heights and later know closer to what size forest pot I really did want and need.
- Forest are fun. Have a great time researching and building.
--------- Okay......I've probably said to much....way to much. Sorry about that.
 
Tieball said:
way to much
Click to expand...

Hell nah!
That's good info.

Them UK forests are different than ours.
I'd go elms over beech for now.

I believe I've read enlightening information from @johng ....lot of experience there.

I would use cardboard cutouts or clay models, or even like sticks from big trees to work on arrangement.

And when it comes to the actual arranging, remember what @Brian Van Fleet says about having trees out of pots.
Something about don't rush. The tree is not gonna die!

Sorce
 
I think Tieball has nailed it, at lease from my perspective...
Most Forest's or Grouping's done in Classic Triangle style are beautiful but not really the way a Forest grows...
I specialize in Tray Landscapes using Japanese Maples and Junipers but not together.

Angle tilt at edges, Personally I prefer a tight forest group with all trees nearly straight. Not to many forests around me have those severe angled trees.
- I think trees should be mostly straight trunked. Trunks with bends, angles and curves don't seem to fit in a forest group to me. Trees reach straight up for the sun. Only 1 or 2 trees on the outside bend slightly to reach the sun. Some forest plantings look as though they are just on a big mounded hill....creating a great curve...but looking unnatural. Not to my liking....it's just me.
 
@Tieball Wow thanks for taking the time for your reply very good info with lots to think about its most apreciated.
Yep some nice replys so far I'm glad I posted on here first to help point me in the right direction
 
@markyscott recently had a thread about display. @Adair M works on display a lot and @Smoke has long documented his efforts with shohin display. Look through their posts for all the information they have shared over the years. There might by one or two talented people I've carelessly omitted from my list, but for the most part, anybody chiming in is most likely regurgitating info......these three just came to mind because they have recently posted on the subject.

Good luck on your display!!! Hope you have a lot of trees.....shohin display doesn't seem as straight forward as you might think!!

:):)
 
LanceMac10 said:
@markyscott recently had a thread about display. @Adair M works on display a lot and @Smoke has long documented his efforts with shohin display. Look through their posts for all the information they have shared over the years. There might by one or two talented people I've carelessly omitted from my list, but for the most part, anybody chiming in is most likely regurgitating info......these three just came to mind because they have recently posted on the subject.

Good luck on your display!!! Hope you have a lot of trees.....shohin display doesn't seem as straight forward as you might think!!

:):)
Click to expand...

Way Nope!

Ha!

I thought of that Group Shohin display too....
But that didn't stop me from reading this post.
If the spoon post wasn't confusing,
This one sure was!

I'm going to get drunk as shit....
And read that post again.
But something tells me it's still not going to make any sense to Rob afterwards!

Pass.

And to think....
When I typed "non-readers", you were not a standout on that list, or even on it, but now, well, I have to make sub categories for reading while intoxicated, or hungover(ha?), but NOW!....

Not only are you on the list....
But "pulling a Lance"...
Will Become.

No worries.
There are worse lists.

And we won't pull to fast, so no one bleeds out.

Sorce
 
Forest plantings are not easy, but the advantage is you can work with younger material. Depending on the forest you want to show you can have relatively equal trunks. Some forest plantings are planted the way you are in the forest, you only show a part of the forest. Straight, not much differentiation between thickeness. Other plantings are the image of the total forest or grouping so there is more variation. One tree started to grow there and the seedlings expanded the planting over time. There it is important to start with a old relatively qualitative tree in the center and have more trees at the edge go at an angle to search for light. I started a beach, zelkova, ulmus, ... forest last year don't think it's easy because it still looks like ...
 
Bolero said:
Angle tilt at edges, Personally I prefer a tight forest group with all trees nearly straight. Not to many forests around me have those severe angled trees.
....Some forest plantings look as though they are just on a big mounded hill....creating a great curve...but looking unnatural. Not to my liking....it's just me.
Click to expand...

Exactly - on a hill. Forests near me always have trees on the hillside growing at a steep angle. Some are almost horizontal after a few feet up the trunk. If you're using a mound of soil to simulate a hill then the angle trees make sense and look great IMO.

Brian
 
I brought 20 1-2 foot tall beech hedging plants today from my local general nursery. There pencil thin and need to grow out for some time but I have plenty of trees to choose the best from. I plan to try and grow some in the ground and some in pots to keep them different sizes and I may also buy a couple of more mature plants aswell to add to the mix. All in all I think I have the basis for my first group planting it may take a few years but I'm sure it will be fun planning and training them to get something towards a final design.
 
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