Sphagnum moss as bonsai substrate...

[Cadillactaste]

I read on another forum...of one watching a YouTube video of one planting bonsai in sphagnum moss only. Now...I understand it's good to use for air layering...and I would imagine some propagation methods possibly. But...to grow actual bonsai is this common place? My mind tells me no...for it holds moisture and could potentially cause root rot. Am I mistaken?

The post was a question...then another poster stated he grows his tropicals in good quality sphagnum moss. Which had me just scratching my head...that this has not really came up here. So I can't see it being common place as a method.

 

[johng]

Back in the 90's, and perhaps it was shot in the 80's, there used to be a public television show about Bonsai, maybe it was called New Horizons in Bonsai?? The host, Brian Batchelter(?), potted all his trees in SM. He actually had some pretty nice stuff..at least I thought so at the time.

I think he was out of Fla and the vast majority of stuff he worked on was tropical. He died a few years ago from the respiratory disease that can be contracted from breathing dried SM...perhaps that is all we really need to know right there!!

Years ago I tried this with several trees...again mainly tropical and I also tried Bald Cypress and Water Elm. The trees survived but never thrived...like inorganic soil mixes it is up to you to provide all the nutrients for the trees. Of course the SM holds a lot of water but it also dries out quickly so I never had any issues with root rot.

John

 

[Nybonsai12]

But...to grow actual bonsai is this common place?
.

Not common to grow bonsai in sphagnum moss at all. I've heard of some people using chopped sphagnum in their mix but not as their only component.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Back in the 90's, and perhaps it was shot in the 80's, there used to be a public television show about Bonsai, maybe it was called New Horizons in Bonsai?? The host, Brian Batchelter(?), potted all his trees in SM. He actually had some pretty nice stuff..at least I thought so at the time.

I think he was out of Fla and the vast majority of stuff he worked on was tropical. He died a few years ago from the respiratory disease that can be contracted from breathing dried SM...perhaps that is all we really need to know right there!!

Years ago I tried this with several trees...again mainly tropical and I also tried Bald Cypress and Water Elm. The trees survived but never thrived...like inorganic soil mixes it is up to you to provide all the nutrients for the trees. Of course the SM holds a lot of water but it also dries out quickly so I never had any issues with root rot.

John

YIKES! Just the thought that it may have contributed to his death...would make me leery of using it as an only substrate. Thanks again John for that tidbit of knowledge.

 

[Eric Group]

Some guy made a bunch of YouTube videos years back describing it as some "new easy method" for creating bonsai. Basically he would just rip the trees out of the little one gallon nursery cans they were in, wash all the dirt out of the roots, stuff a bunch of wet Sphagnum Moss into a bonsai pot, cut a couple branches off and hold it up for the camera like he had created a masterpiece. He had a follow up video to show the progress of how great all his trees were doing- most were alive but certainly not very happy and he had zero understanding of Bonsai style and technique. It is kind of a funny video... Kind of sad too though. Not sure of this is the same guy mentioned above who passed away.

 

[fourteener]

I guess species would matter a great deal. The tamaracks I gather living in SM in a bog. Their roots obviously don't mind the constant moisture. Try that with a pine and it's all over.

No it's not normal and I wouldn't do it.

 

[Don Blackmond]

you can grow in straight sm. like anything, it has pros and cons. it does retard fungal growth, stays moist not swampy and will allow good aeration if prepared properly. On the other hand, it is very light, dries quickly and gets very dry, it can be challenging to water and keep properly moist, and birds here seem to want it for nesting materials..... I use it for layering and as a surface later to keep in moisture on small bonsai that need frequent watering. It works very well as a cap on satsuki planted in pure akadama (which also dries quickly).

 

[johng]

YIKES! Just the thought that it may have contributed to his death...would make me leery of using it as an only substrate. Thanks again John for that tidbit of knowledge.

No may have about it unfortunately...here is a thread about it from a couple years ago
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthr...Health-Risks-Things-to-do-and-not-to-do/page3

Eric...The youtube SM master is a different guy...the really horrible thing about that guy is that his videos on youtube have more views than the rest of us combined...it is no wonder so many people get a bad impression about bonsai.

 

[lordy]

YIKES! Just the thought that it may have contributed to his death...would make me leery of using it as an only substrate. Thanks again John for that tidbit of knowledge.

I use it as top dressing on azaleas to keep the kanuma damp and lightly acidic, but I wet it thoroughly and either cut it with shears or a knife on a cutting board, or if I need a bunch, a blender, but that is almost more work than it's worth.
I have not, however, heard of it being used as the planting medium by itself.

 

[jkd2572]

I use it as top dressing on some deciduous trees when the temps hit 100. I just learned a good tip on how to shred it. Take big clumps of it and rub it against a soil sifter screen. Works great. I did it with my largest screen, which I think is about 1/4 inch squares on it.

 

[lordy]

I use it as top dressing on some deciduous trees when the temps hit 100. I just learned a good tip on how to shred it. Take big clumps of it and rub it against a soil sifter screen. Works great. I did it with my largest screen, which I think is about 1/4 inch squares on it.

That idea sounds like it would work pretty well, except for the possibility of the dust touched on earlier.

 

[jkd2572]

I remember reading that there is a kind of sm that has some kind of bacteria in it that's dangerous, but it was not the kind I use. I don't remember any more details about the article sorry. I feel safe in my method.

 

[jkd2572]

Here is one article
http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATSphagnum Moss.htm

 

[QuintinBonsai]

Some guy made a bunch of YouTube videos years back describing it as some "new easy method" for creating bonsai. Basically he would just rip the trees out of the little one gallon nursery cans they were in, wash all the dirt out of the roots, stuff a bunch of wet Sphagnum Moss into a bonsai pot, cut a couple branches off and hold it up for the camera like he had created a masterpiece. He had a follow up video to show the progress of how great all his trees were doing- most were alive but certainly not very happy and he had zero understanding of Bonsai style and technique. It is kind of a funny video... Kind of sad too though. Not sure of this is the same guy mentioned above who passed away.

This is him. Not the same one who passed away, but in this video he mentions him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7xIlOXuY0o

His method of cramming all of this wet moss down into these homemade concrete pots is rather odd to say the least.

 

[larlamonde]

I use it as top dressing on some deciduous trees when the temps hit 100. I just learned a good tip on how to shred it. Take big clumps of it and rub it against a soil sifter screen. Works great. I did it with my largest screen, which I think is about 1/4 inch squares on it.

Funny you say that jdk, I take a handful and grind it through my sifting screen and add it to my soil when I repot. I use mostly inorganic mix that drains really well and the SM gives it a little better moisture retentive quality. SM has a lot of benefits but I see no reason to use it alone to grow bonsai when other mediums are available.

 

[larlamonde]

No may have about it unfortunately...here is a thread about it from a couple years ago
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthr...Health-Risks-Things-to-do-and-not-to-do/page3

Eric...The youtube SM master is a different guy...the really horrible thing about that guy is that his videos on youtube have more views than the rest of us combined...it is no wonder so many people get a bad impression about bonsai.

John we put him on all the time for a good laugh! It is really funny.

 

[Poink88]

I add some chopped SM in my soil mix when I remember. Usually about 5% of the mix. I believe it helps a lot for my area.

I also use it as top dressing for my azalea and for airlayering. I never tried it as my main soil component though (even when airlayering).

 

[michaelj]

This is him. Not the same one who passed away, but in this video he mentions him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7xIlOXuY0o

His method of cramming all of this wet moss down into these homemade concrete pots is rather odd to say the least.

Jerry's videos are often almost a perfect "what not to do with bonsai". He seems to have a bigger problem with die-back and die-off than even most beginners, and his trees develop no trunk girth or nebari, so I would not consider his method, especially if I lived in a cool climate or in a very hot and dry climate. If I used a lot of sphagnum moss, I'd use a mask. Brian, the guy who originally promoted this method, did die from sporotrichosis, a disease caused by inhaling spores of the fungus Sporothrix schenckii from the moss. It has happened to a few nursery workers elsewhere, as well. When I use sphagnum moss, if I'm not wearing a mask, I'll wet it all down while it's still in the bag, and only use it wet, then I wash my hands when I'm done, before it dries out on my and gets dusty.

 

[Dav4]

I've watched this video 3 times over the last few years...every time I watch it, I get a migrane head ache and literally go blind for 2-3 days. I think it's the pots. You'd think I'd learn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPVaAXgRoKk

 

[Anthony]

Darlene,

Anthony showed this to me.

The answer is yes, you can grow plants in moss. Did this for over 3 years with a cutting of a serissa.

However, I used our moss that grows on our Cocoa trees, called cocoa moss.
Jerry Meislik, did however warn me on IBC that I could get what is called - sudden death, as the moss rots out completely and very rapidly.

After 3 years our moss was the same. It did however grow exceptionally healthy suface moss.Beautiful lawn.

Please note that for more or less six months we have no rain and when the rains return it is around 6" or less for most of the months left in the year.

To counter for the extra rain, I used a glazed earthenware pot, the bottom of the pot was not glazed.

It was a good learning experience, but I returned the cutting to a stone and cmpost mix, for the 4th year.

I grow the coarser azaleas in pure peatmoss, so obviously some shrubs can grow in moss, even decayed.
Laters.
K