Slipping the bark on Junipers

[bwaynef]

I decided this year to tackle a few things. So far I'm 6/7 on JBP grafts (unless its 7/8). I've also airlayered before leafing out to positive results on a Shishigashira maple because I'd heard there are 2 times to airlayer but had only ever done it after the leaves hardened off. Now I'd really like to see if there's anything to this "slipping the bark" thing.

I've heard for years that working junipers during the growing season is dangerous because it risks "slipping the bark" because there's so much liquid moving in the vascular system of the tree that the bark is sort of just floating along. I've even warned of the danger.

I come here asking for someone who's actually experienced it to tell me about it. (Please, if you've only been warned about it, that's not the information I'm after. I've got that, in spades.)

1. When did you do the work?
2. How extreme were the bends?
3. Twists?
4. Was your wiring adequate?
5. What exactly is the timeframe when you've experienced the bark slipping?
   1. Earliest time of year
   2. Latest time of the year
6. How long after the work did it take to see the damage start to show up?

If you have pictures that'd be awesome too.

I also come here asking for others to join me in sacrificing some junipers to the altar of ...science. I've got a few ProNanas in gallon pots that I'm planning on styling. This will involve significant bends and twists. If there's any other participants, I can post pictures of the trees I intend to work on. To clarify, I'm not trying to kill them. I don't want to find the limit of how much work I can sneak by with. But I would like to find out if work that I'd regularly do can be done over a wider range of time. I've got three, so I think working one in each of the upcoming warm months (June, July, and August) would give me a pretty good indication of whether the danger of "slipping the bark" is as imminent as is often claimed.

 

[Calnicky]

I haven't personally, with my own hands, slipped the bark on a juniper but I had someone exceptionally well-known do it for me in a workshop. I was new and the tree was not a great specimen (healthy, just not beautiful). This "big name" (who shall be unnamed) was doing some pretty big bends. I think it was in January. A couple of months later I noticed the foliage turning brown and it all just went dead from there. I Still have the thing with some healthy lower branches and it's still butt-ugly.

Always wondered if he knew he had slipped the bark. I'm pretty sure you can feel when it slips. Sometime I'll try to do some big bends myself on it. Nothing to lose at this point it if all dies!

 

[Hartinez]

I’ve been hearing about barks slippage for sometime also. I think there is something to it, maybe. Though I haven’t seen it. Here are quite a few junipers posted in my house money thread that were all styled in the first week of august. Significant bends and foliage reduction on all of them. One of these was done 2nd week of august on a collected one seed juniper.

These pushed quite a bit of new growth end of last year and are all thriving now with tons more new growth. Most were also repotted this year.

 

[Hartinez]

Ultimately, I believe you just have to be clean with your bends and raffia wrapping.

With that said, these were all done in August, not July, but I feel like I could do it without much concern. Intentionality in the process and cleanliness wins the day.

 

[Hartinez]

I chopped back, cut back, notched and bent heavily this tree all in the same go in early august.

 

[Hartinez]

House Money Junipers

As the title suggests, Ive started several juniper projects over the last 2 1/2 years that feel like “house Money”. No real investment per say, or even sentimental value with each of these, more an opportunity to push them horticulturally and through design. Several of the trees shared will...

www.bonsainut.com

In this thread it’s all about the idea of testing limits in cheap junipers to see if I can get away with work on a larger timeline.

 

[Hartinez]

This work was done the last week of July in 2020. Wouldn’t say I bent massively, but each main trunk was bent and twisted with the main trunk needing wrapping in raffia. It’s thriving today

 

[Hartinez]

Is this all anecdotal? Maybe. For me though, the supreme reason I bend when I do is general plant health. Junipers seem to be at their peak and In turn able to recover from work best mid to late summer.

 

[Hartinez]

This may be one where the bark did “slip”. The apex of the taller trunk ended up dying. But as I was bending I could tell some issues happened. I did not wrap that trunk, and I was far more careless with the process. Work was done end of august.


You can see the hard turn where I think the issue arose. The circled red part died.

 

[ShadyStump]

Not juniper, but I abused a boxwood around July (I think) last summer, and the first branch I tried to wire the bark all but came off in my hand. Lost the whole branch of course.

So there's something to it, absolutely. We're just still waiting to see for sure if junipers are part of that category.

 

[bwaynef]

... was doing some pretty big bends. I think it was in January. ...

If the work was done in January-ish in the northern hemisphere, then this doesn't really apply in this discussion. At that time of year, there shouldn't be a lot of fleshy growth, driving a lot of fluids up and down the trunk. I hate that you lost a significant portion of your tree though.

 

[bwaynef]

@Hartinez thanks for all your examples. This is the info I'm after. Sounds like late-July/August is a reasonably safe time for you to work those trees. In all the nebulous caution I've received, the earlier in the spring, the more likely for slippage. At least I think. This helps establish when the danger may've passed. Thanks again.

 

[Hartinez]

@Hartinez thanks for all your examples. This is the info I'm after. Sounds like late-July/August is a reasonably safe time for you to work those trees. In all the nebulous caution I've received, the earlier in the spring, the more likely for slippage. At least I think. This helps establish when the danger may've passed. Thanks again.

In my opinion, and experience. Junipers are best worked when in a healthy state of vigorous growth. I don’t bend wire or style junipers mid winter ever. I have also stopped wiring, bending and styling extensively in early spring. Summer to late summer is my MO. But ultimately as I was saying above, it all comes down to intentionally and quality. When I take my time wrapping the section to be bent heavily, when I take my time applying wire correctly and when I take my time setting and bending, the tree always seems to pull through. When I’m rushed and sloppy those odds shrink.

 

[bwaynef]

I have also stopped wiring, bending and styling extensively in early spring.

This seems like an interesting comment to focus on. Why's that? What's been your experience? What's "early spring" for you? Is that by the calendar or as the tree is exiting dormancy?

 

[Hartinez]

This seems like an interesting comment to focus on. Why's that? What's been your experience? What's "early spring" for you? Is that by the calendar or as the tree is exiting dormancy?

For me early spring is around late March to early April. About the time that my deciduous trees start to push, and I am repotting them. I think what it comes down to, for me, is rate of recovery. I have noticed when I start clipping these brand new growing tips in early spring on junipers that they recover much slower then if I do it early mid or late summer. The tree will typically recover just fine, it just does it at a slower rate. I’ve been waiting to style lately until the growing tips have really extended. For me that has been late May early June. But if I feel like the tree needs to really regain health, I will wait longer.

Through my 10 years of doing this, I’ve killed Junipers in all seasons of the year, but it’s the little nuance differences during each time of the growing year that makes all the difference. Again, a lot of this could just be anecdotal, but I feel like I have had a lot of success with my junipers in the last several years.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I get more slipping bark when removing wire compared to applying wire in the hotter months. I've seen the bark slip when applying wire as well, but it also heals faster in warmer months.

But I've wired junipers just 45-60 individual times. Maybe I don't have the actual experience.
Small branches are not an issue, but bends that require 3mm or thicker wire, yeah, those get damaged easily.

 

[Hartinez]

I get more slipping bark when removing wire compared to applying wire in the hotter months.

this. I have def seen this. Especially once the wire starts biting even just a little.

 

[nuttiest]

What damage? Would it behave as if it got a vascular fungus, kill a whole branch? Parallel scarring to bark? A knot?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

What damage? Would it behave as if it got a vascular fungus, kill a whole branch? Parallel scarring to bark? A knot?

All of the above. Depending on how large the wound is and how much tissue there is to manage the rest of the branch.

 

[nuttiest]

All of the above. Depending on how large the wound is and how much tissue there is to manage the rest of the branch.

Thanks, maybe explains some things.