Sick Maple?

[eryk2kartman]

Hi all,

I hope someone can help me, i think my tree is dying slowly, it can be fungus or something like that, maybe bad graft? or me doing something wrong?
So i have this maple(Japanese Maple i think) for a long time, probably 8 years or so, got it in bigbox store as a small tree, tree was growing well, i wasn't sure which way to style it etc so i thought i might get nice garden/landscape tree and learn something at the same time, so it was growing in the pot all the time, waiting for perfect spot in the garden.
I repotted it every couple of years, i think around 3 years ago ive noticed that it stopped pushing new growth, also it started to going very red really early in summer, first i thought i was sun burn, moved it around etc but it didn't help.
So in spring, buds swallow, and its pushing the leaves, but nothing else, leaves stay green for a while and later they go more reddish until they sort of dries and curls, they would stay like that on the tree until October -November than tree drops them as any maple would do. In spring process starts again.
About the same time 3 years ago - there was a 2nd branch that died back during the winter, quite big branch, i cut it and sealed the wound,
I repotted it last year to give it fresh soil but it didnt help at all, during repot i took the past off and ive noticed the old dead wood was starting to rot, so i had to cut it back again and clean up everything, the wood is dead there and i can see its started to heal over.
But tree hasnt grow any new branches since, only 2 leaves from the bud and thats all.

Can someone advise me on this? I sprayed the plant with fungicide but seems to be doing no different

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

No maple fan here, but it sounds like your issue is inside the plant itself. Applying fungicide on the outside doesn't help a whole lot. External applications are usually meant to stop new infections, you'd want a systemic fungicide; something the plant takes up and spreads throughout the sap stream.

As for what's happening with the foliage, it seems like there's a nitrogen blockade (pH or excess P+K) or deficiency (no N). Do you use nutrients, and what are the NPK ratios?
I know this behavior in plants that are treated with P+K nutrients only.
They pop up new foliage only to drop it as soon as there's a new bud, because they re-use the nitrogen from the foliage that drops, since there are no other sources available.

Again, I'm no maple fan. Just trying to provide some leads to think about.

The green in the shaded parts is something that makes me wonder if sunlight might be an issue. Is it in full sun all day?

 

[eryk2kartman]

Hey,

Thanks for reply, no its not in the full sun, gets maybe 2h in the morning and maybe another 2h in the afternoon.
I use 20-20-20 fertilizer but here is a good observation - i only used once this year, it makes leaves to get reddish and die pretty quickly, so i didn't use it since.
I could bring the plant to even more shady position but not sure if that would make any difference as i think it should grow as it is, maybe a bit slower if sun is the issue.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

@eryk2kartman were it not for your description, i would say the trees looks healthy!

the big scar on the main trunk - is that the big branch you removed? If so--using the attached photo as an example--did you leave the red part in your first cut or did you remove the red part right away with your first cut?

also, can you post another photo of that area? I would like to see the wound from the side view. The trunk does not look very thick behind the wound.

 

[Forsoothe!]

For lack of any better understanding of your issues, I'd say start feeding with Miracid at label levels every other week. That will modify temporarily the pH down a little and you'll get some trace elements, too. Add an equal amount of Epson salts for more of the same. Chelated iron is good even if not a problem, or just put a dozen #6 non galvanized nails on the surface if you're cheap. Whatever else is true, do something different...

Also, I recommend sinking the pot for marginal/sick plants, for two years at a time. They grow better and faster in the ground. The colors look like an Autumn Full Moon, which, see, a very, very slow starter. Like this one at the end of the walk...

 

[Deleted member 21616]

@Forsoothe! those are a lot of recommendations for an unidentified issue -- what are those two piles of pink flowers though, they're beautiful!

@eryk2kartman i'd wait for feedback from any of the following people before doing anything besides observing @0soyoung @River's Edge @LanceMac10 @AlainK @Leo in N E Illinois

 

[Forsoothe!]

Dereck, you're right. But all good practices in general that wouldn't hurt even if they didn't specifically help.

Azaleas are lovely in spring...

 

[AlainK]

Hard to say, every issue on a tree can be very different from another one, but it looks like some kind of deficiency, some kind of chlorosis, as others suggested. I sometimes have the same problem with some of mine: repotting -or "transpotting- them in a more acidic soil with a 6-6-6 slow-release fertilizer usually helps.

I would also be interested in what @0soyoung @River's Edge @LanceMac10 and @Leo in N E Illinois would say...

 

[0soyoung]

The green in the shaded parts is something that makes me wonder if sunlight might be an issue.

It is very clearly responsible for the coloration. Anthocyanins, that affect the red coloration, shade the photocenters. Placed in more shade, it will fade. Anthocyanins can be induced by dryness and by root problems, but all foliage would be affected - interior foliage would also be reddened, which it is not.

... i think around 3 years ago ive noticed that it stopped pushing new growth, also it started to going very red really early in summer, first i thought i was sun burn, moved it around etc but it didn't help.
So in spring, buds swallow, and its pushing the leaves, but nothing else, leaves stay green for a while and later they go more reddish until they sort of dries and curls, they would stay like that on the tree until October -November than tree drops them as any maple would do. In spring process starts again.
About the same time 3 years ago - there was a 2nd branch that died back during the winter, quite big branch, i cut it and sealed the wound,
,,,

I use 20-20-20 fertilizer but here is a good observation - i only used once this year, it makes leaves to get reddish and die pretty quickly, so i didn't use it since.
I could bring the plant to even more shady position but not sure if that would make any difference as i think it should grow as it is, maybe a bit slower if sun is the issue.

This all suggests nitrogen starvation to me. Good nitrogen nutrition is essential for budding. The photocenters, commonly called the chlorophyll, are nitrogen intensive proteins, and extension of new growth requires nitrogen.

What is needed, I think, is a little bit of fertilizer applied more often. I use Osmocote-Plus (15-9-12 and minors) at the rate of about one-half teaspoon per pot gallon of substrate, twice a year. Osmocote are little prills that release their contents faster the higher the temperature, roughly matching the rates plants/trees need NPK. Life is simpler this way, but it isn't the only way.

If one simply grabs a handful of 20-20-20 and throws it into the pot, it dissolves fairly quickly, but in the short term gives the tree fertilizer burn. Too much fertilizer salt causes water to move out of the tree rather than into it. Mildly it is like dry / under watered roots and voila! reddening leaves. Subsequent watering flushes away the salts and now the tree is starving for nitrogen (unless one is using a high CEC substrate, maybe). More seriously, leaves droop and wither away from the damage done to the roots.

 

[River's Edge]

Hi all,

I hope someone can help me, i think my tree is dying slowly, it can be fungus or something like that, maybe bad graft? or me doing something wrong?
So i have this maple(Japanese Maple i think) for a long time, probably 8 years or so, got it in bigbox store as a small tree, tree was growing well, i wasn't sure which way to style it etc so i thought i might get nice garden/landscape tree and learn something at the same time, so it was growing in the pot all the time, waiting for perfect spot in the garden.
I repotted it every couple of years, i think around 3 years ago ive noticed that it stopped pushing new growth, also it started to going very red really early in summer, first i thought i was sun burn, moved it around etc but it didn't help.
So in spring, buds swallow, and its pushing the leaves, but nothing else, leaves stay green for a while and later they go more reddish until they sort of dries and curls, they would stay like that on the tree until October -November than tree drops them as any maple would do. In spring process starts again.
About the same time 3 years ago - there was a 2nd branch that died back during the winter, quite big branch, i cut it and sealed the wound,
I repotted it last year to give it fresh soil but it didnt help at all, during repot i took the past off and ive noticed the old dead wood was starting to rot, so i had to cut it back again and clean up everything, the wood is dead there and i can see its started to heal over.
But tree hasnt grow any new branches since, only 2 leaves from the bud and thats all.

Can someone advise me on this? I sprayed the plant with fungicide but seems to be doing no different
View attachment 247712View attachment 247713View attachment 247714View attachment 247715View attachment 247716

Welcome Ireland! From a displaced Irishman whose grandparents immigrated for work in the coal mines.
With your tree, i suspect it is more important to get back to basics, in this case. The tree likely needs a repot in better substrate and root work done to improve its health. Overall it appears to be reacting normally to a sunny location. ( curious where you found a sunny location in Ireland?) I see no evidence of insect damage or disease in the pictures. The bit of black on the scar is likely natural decay from exposure.
The scar is simply the product of incorrect pruning techniques. The best method with maples is to leave a stub initially, then carve the site with a slightly concave centre and very sharp knife clean the edges, use cut paste to cover the area and allow it to heal. The other extra steps in pruning maples are increased care to clean and disinfect tools. As it is the scar is forming a callu and beginning to heal. It would help to re-cut the areas that are not calloused until exposing some live tissue in those area's. That will in the end speed the healing. You can carve the area a bit lower in the centre and the edges to allow the callus to roll over easily and create a flatter surface when healed.

 

[eryk2kartman]

Thanks everyone for the advice, very helpful and knowledgeable.

So i moved it to shady spot, very little direct sunlight, lets see what happens,
Its growing in the compost mixed with perlite and some sand, it liked it so far as i had it in similar mix all the time. Also we get here a lot of rain so under watering shouldn't be an issue, more likely i would say over watering, but at the same time i had different maples in same substrate and more direct sun light spot and they are doing fine.
In relation to cut, yes initially i left the small stub and i put cutting past on the wound, a year later i took it off and discovered a lot of rotten wood and it wasn't dry or healed, that's why i had to cut it the way it is now to remove all rotten part.
I have some different fertilizers including slow release Osmocote(but for Rhododendrons) i could try that but all my other trees like 20-20-20 no complains.
i found some old photo so the other branch is visible, it was fully dead when i removed it, first cut was done when red line is.



and more photos of the scar

 

[River's Edge]

Thanks everyone for the advice, very helpful and knowledgeable.

So i moved it to shady spot, very little direct sunlight, lets see what happens,
Its growing in the compost mixed with perlite and some sand, it liked it so far as i had it in similar mix all the time. Also we get here a lot of rain so under watering shouldn't be an issue, more likely i would say over watering, but at the same time i had different maples in same substrate and more direct sun light spot and they are doing fine.
In relation to cut, yes initially i left the small stub and i put cutting past on the wound, a year later i took it off and discovered a lot of rotten wood and it wasn't dry or healed, that's why i had to cut it the way it is now to remove all rotten part.
I have some different fertilizers including slow release Osmocote(but for Rhododendrons) i could try that but all my other trees like 20-20-20 no complains.
i found some old photo so the other branch is visible, it was fully dead when i removed it, first cut was done when red line is.

View attachment 247808

and more photos of the scar
View attachment 247809
View attachment 247810
View attachment 247811
View attachment 247812

It makes a bit more sense now that it is clear you removed the branch after it died. Let us know how it responds to the shadier spot. I would consider a lighter form of fertilise than 20-20-20. I have found better success using those with numbers below 10. Rose food or Rhododenron fertiliser can be good choices as well. Best wishes.

 

[0soyoung]

Also, make sure that nitrogen is not completely from urea. Partly okay. Totally, not so good with Japanese maples.