Shimpaku advice

[Shamino]

I've attached pics of two of my three Shimpaku. All three are about 35-40 years old (I potted them from pre-bonsai when they were about 15 years old.) The one on the right will be repotted and repositioned in about another month (I did a post about this one earlier.) basically, I've never let these trees have shoots grow, then prune back, grow, prune back, etc. I've been just pinching to keep the foliage tight. As a result, I haven't really seen any strong growth shoots from the tips and haven't experienced much bud back, although there's been a bit. I also never pruned the roots properly and consequently, the center of the root ball has become quite large causing the tree to ride higher in the pot than it should. When I repot, I intend to try to reduce the center of the rootball very carefully then reposition. My question is, since no shooters are growing, is the tree healthy? And will the trees send out new growth again if I leave it again, then prune/wire when it gets a bit shaggy?

 

[Bonsai Forest]

Looks healthy to me. I like them. They could be final designed if you like, or you could leave them as is. (Following for more experienced comments and advice)

One option:

 

[Bonsai Forest]

I've attached pics of two of my three Shimpaku. All three are about 35-40 years old (I potted them from pre-bonsai when they were about 15 years old.) The one on the right will be repotted and repositioned in about another month (I did a post about this one earlier.) basically, I've never let these trees have shoots grow, then prune back, grow, prune back, etc. I've been just pinching to keep the foliage tight. As a result, I haven't really seen any strong growth shoots from the tips and haven't experienced much bud back, although there's been a bit. I also never pruned the roots properly and consequently, the center of the root ball has become quite large causing the tree to ride higher in the pot than it should. When I repot, I intend to try to reduce the center of the rootball very carefully then reposition. My question is, since no shooters are growing, is the tree healthy? And will the trees send out new growth again if I leave it again, then prune/wire when it gets a bit shaggy?

I’m thinking you have nice trunk lines that could be shown off. The trees spent years making them, it’s time to reveal them perhaps.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

My question is, since no shooters are growing, is the tree healthy? And will the trees send out new growth again if I leave it again, then prune/wire when it gets a bit shaggy?

Looks healthy, but not vigorous.
I usually stick to the rule that I let them grow first half of summer until they stop elongating, to gain vigor, then if needed I cut them back into shape. Let them grow again until they stop extending, them cut back to shape again.

Having them show ready at all times can weaken them over time, and then they lose a lot of vigor that we would want for repotting and other heavy work.

I think if you just repot and let them grow for a full year, they will bud back easier and give you more healthy plants in the long run.

 

[Shibui]

Some of the lack of growth can probably be attributed to the poor soil and packed root ball. I find that top growth gradually declines the longer between repotting. All tree growth depends on the roots and soil so just leaving these trees as they are and hoping for strong top growth may be futile.
As it will soon be an ideal time to repot I would take the opportunity to reduce packed roots and replace worn soil. I'd be confident you'll see better growth through summer as a result of the increased room for roots and better soil conditions. Increased vigour up top will also give the best opportunity for back buds but it may be a little late for some of the oldest bare branches. Only time will tell.

Depending what the real condition of the soil and roots is I would probably be a little more aggressive than just 'reduce the center of the rootball very carefully'. Junipers can cope with more than half the roots off if necessary.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

All of the above. . Recall Junipers carry their strength in the foliage. Continuous pinching keeps weakening the tree. Restying a weak tree that will not backbud is not such a good idea.

Two issues

First - ’Pinching back’ Per se isn’t done anymore. the technique is to wait until one sees extensions, wait a bit more to assure the foliage expands to the desired strength, then cut back as needed.

In other words, Shimpaku must gain length before it will gain mass. So by letting the trees grow, the trees will get stronger. Strong enough to backbud… that may take some time. In our yard a year would be minimum recovery, two might be better. Some of the extensions are so long one might only see new extensions at the base of the branches… what we call ‘Hope for the future’ areas to create new branches closer to the trunks.

Second - Junipers need a proper balance of oxygen and water. Keeping the trees in the same media allows the spaces for water and oxygen to get clogged up by media breakdown, roots and detritus from both the atmosphere and rhizosphere.

Base mixes we use out here for shimpaku are 2:1:1 Akadamaumice:Lava Some areas can easily get away with 1:1:1 with proper watering.
Our repotting rotation runs 3-5 years depending upon water flow into the media.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Shamino]

Great advice everyone...thank you.

All of the above. . Recall Junipers carry their strength in the foliage. Continuous pinching keeps weakening the tree. Restying a weak tree that will not backbud is not such a good idea.

Two issues

First - ’Pinching back’ Per se isn’t done anymore. the technique is to wait until one sees extensions, wait a bit more to assure the foliage expands to the desired strength, then cut back as needed.

In other words, Shimpaku must gain length before it will gain mass. So by letting the trees grow, the trees will get stronger. Strong enough to backbud… that may take some time. In our yard a year would be minimum recovery, two might be better. Some of the extensions are so long one might only see new extensions at the base of the branches… what we call ‘Hope for the future’ areas to create new branches closer to the trunks.

Second - Junipers need a proper balance of oxygen and water. Keeping the trees in the same media allows the spaces for water and oxygen to get clogged up by media breakdown, roots and detritus from both the atmosphere and rhizosphere.

Base mixes we use out here for shimpaku are 2:1:1 Akadamaumice:Lava Some areas can easily get away with 1:1:1 with proper watering.
Our repotting rotation runs 3-5 years depending upon water flow into the media.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Shamino]

"’Pinching back’ Per se isn’t done anymore." I've noticed this...Is this for tree health or aesthetic reasons?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

"’Pinching back’ Per se isn’t done anymore." I've noticed this...Is this for tree health or aesthetic reasons?

Aesthetic, as pinching leaves a little more of a brown end compared to a scissor cut.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

The virts shared above suggest a pretty aggressive reduction in foliage. It would be better for the tree if you repotted them first and got the roots into soil that drains well. If the center of the root mass is very compacted, it needs to be worked out with a chopstick to provide good air and water exchange.

Sounds like you’ve had these for a long time, and are using a pinching technique that keeps the foliage in a mass that never gets past the profile. The result is kind of like constantly pruning hedges back to the exact same profile in the landscape…no new growth on the inside, and no growth is allowed outside the profile to gain strength. It is important to allow the tee to get strong, grow hard, and then over time replace old branches with young, vigorous branches. Otherwise you end up with a lethargic old hedge. Watch some videos from Bonsai Empire and read a little from Mike Haggedorn if you want to get these trees healthy and begin training them into something different.

Review: Bonsai Empire’s Kimura Techniques Masterclass

Bonsai Empire has launched a new course, featuring “The Magician” Masahiko Kimura transforming two very large rough trees into showable bonsai through the course of a dozen videos. The new course i…

nebaribonsai.wordpress.com

Here are two examples of letting my juniper run, then properly trimming it back, same tree, about 4 years apart. And it’s time to do it again.

Itoigawa Trimming

This tree was tidied up for the Alabama club show in May, and left to grow until mid-August, when I trimmed it up again in preparation for the fall growth spurt. Look at those strong runners. Left …

nebaribonsai.wordpress.com

Itoigawa Shimpaku summer work

I last wired this one 2 years ago, and the wire was digging in. It had also gotten fairly dense, and as is the case, weak areas got weaker, and strong areas got stronger. So this work was to remove…

nebaribonsai.wordpress.com

This allows the tree to stay strong, and gives options for replacing old branches with new shoots, keeping interior growth.

 

[Shamino]

The virts shared above suggest a pretty aggressive reduction in foliage. It would be better for the tree if you repotted them first and got the roots into soil that drains well. If the center of the root mass is very compacted, it needs to be worked out with a chopstick to provide good air and water exchange.

Sounds like you’ve had these for a long time, and are using a pinching technique that keeps the foliage in a mass that never gets past the profile. The result is kind of like constantly pruning hedges back to the exact same profile in the landscape…no new growth on the inside, and no growth is allowed outside the profile to gain strength. It is important to allow the tee to get strong, grow hard, and then over time replace old branches with young, vigorous branches. Otherwise you end up with a lethargic old hedge. Watch some videos from Bonsai Empire and read a little from Mike Haggedorn if you want to get these trees healthy and begin training them into something different.

Review: Bonsai Empire’s Kimura Techniques Masterclass

Bonsai Empire has launched a new course, featuring “The Magician” Masahiko Kimura transforming two very large rough trees into showable bonsai through the course of a dozen videos. The new course i…

nebaribonsai.wordpress.com

Here are two examples of letting my juniper run, then properly trimming it back, same tree, about 4 years apart. And it’s time to do it again.

Itoigawa Trimming

This tree was tidied up for the Alabama club show in May, and left to grow until mid-August, when I trimmed it up again in preparation for the fall growth spurt. Look at those strong runners. Left …

nebaribonsai.wordpress.com

Itoigawa Shimpaku summer work

I last wired this one 2 years ago, and the wire was digging in. It had also gotten fairly dense, and as is the case, weak areas got weaker, and strong areas got stronger. So this work was to remove…

nebaribonsai.wordpress.com

This allows the tree to stay strong, and gives options for replacing old branches with new shoots, keeping interior growth.

Thanks...more good advice. I plan to repot in about 3 weeks and then leave to start recovering/begin to grow out.

 

[ShimpakuBonsai]

You shouldn't pinch junipers IMO.
I always prune new shoots back.