Scots pine field grown question

[tkroeker]

I have several rows of Scots pines that are over 4' tall. Its fall in Kansas.
Should I root chop for ramification closer to the trunk now ( leaving them in the ground) then next year chop the height down to start styling or the other way around?
I have several other rows that have been hard cut back in previous seasons but these are on my sights this year.

 

[Glaucus]

I think you need root grow bags for field growing pines for bonsai.

 

[leatherback]

I have several rows of Scots pines that are over 4' tall. Its fall in Kansas.
Should I root chop for ramification closer to the trunk now ( leaving them in the ground) then next year chop the height down to start styling or the other way around?
I have several other rows that have been hard cut back in previous seasons but these are on my sights this year.

the size of trunk & ultimate aims should drive your actions. As we do not see your trees nor know your ambitions it is a little hard to tell.

 

[damiano68]

Nel frattempo hai modellato il tronco quando era ancora malleabile?

 

[tkroeker]

I will be cutting the tops off and using the bottom branch(s) or the back budding to form the tree. Some have been roughly shaped, some are set as twin trunks, and some will develop as Formal uprights.

 

[tkroeker]

trunks range from 2 1/2 to 3 inches in diameter.

 

[Betula1]

Please post your location on your profile and some photos of the trees to enable people here to provide you meaningful advice

 

[RoadManDenDron]

@Glaucus I have heard this about root bags a few times now,

Just wondering do we use normal pine free draining soil in the bag?

 

[Shibui]

Should I root chop for ramification closer to the trunk

Root chop while the tree is still in the ground can often be ineffective for a couple of reasons.
1. Most of us don't estimate very well and chop too far away from the trunk, meaning that those roots will still need to be chopped shorter when you dig. More than 90% of new roots grow from the cut ends of roots rather than evenly spaced along the remaining length. If you can measure or guess more accurately what sized pot the trees will go into it can be a useful technique, but otherwise wasted effort.
2. Sometimes cutting the surface roots just makes the tree rely more on the deeper roots that are still intact. That will mean those deep roots will be much harder to cut when you dig. It also reduces lateral thickening of the trunk until such time as the surface roots recover and start feeding the tree again.

then next year chop the height down to start styling or the other way around?

I don't grow Scots pine here but I do grow JBP in my grow beds. I get good results by chopping the tops the year before digging then just dig the trees the following spring and prune all the roots ruthlessly but leave plenty of intact growing tips on branches. Leaving active growing points seems to help the pines and junipers get new roots started. I guess it will be similar for Scots pine.

Just wondering do we use normal pine free draining soil in the bag?

Need to be a it careful when putting open soil into the ground. If the native soil is heavy clay your root bags filled with open potting soil may become pools of water during and after wet weather. If the local soil is well drained there's no problem.

 

[tkroeker]

Please post your location on your profile and some photos of the trees to enable people here to provide you meaningful advice

I will add my location to my profile. I did state in the question that I am in Kansas though. I am adding a picture of the rows that I am working on. this is about 240 trees and I have 450 all together.

 

[tkroeker]

Nel frattempo hai modellato il tronco quando era ancora malleabile?

Some, yes
alcuni, sì

 

[Glaucus]

@Glaucus I have heard this about root bags a few times now,

Just wondering do we use normal pine free draining soil in the bag?

For all these things, check out the Telperion Farms podcasts:

Telperion Farms | Bonsai Mirai: Asymmetry

In this episode of Asymmetry, Ryan sits down with Telperion Farms owner Chris Kirk and his collaborator Gary Woods to dive into the intricacies of field-grown bonsai material. They discuss the nuances of timing, preparing the material before it’s planted in the field, adding movement, pruning...

bonsaimirai.podbean.com

How to Ground Grow the Telperion Way

I’ve learned a lot about ground growing. And by learning a lot, I mean I’ve killed a lot of trees (as I look over at my dying Scots pine…). 10 years in the ground for many of my trees now so a few are just looking like something worth digging since they were all planted as saplings. Shout out...

forum.bonsaimirai.com

P

Post in thread 'Field Growing in Grow Bags'

Nov 30, 2019

Telperion Farms use grow bags, and Ryan Neal loves to buy their material. The topic is covered in an episode of the podcast Asymmetry. I recommend giving it a listen. They are seeing idententical growth rates as growing without the bags, but the root system is more compact and easier to transition to a pot. Their speculation is that you get the microbiome and even moisture benefits despite the restricted volume of roots.

‎Bonsai Mirai: Asymmetry on Apple Podcasts

‎Arts · 2024

podcasts.apple.com

• Punky

• 

Root Control Bag | High Caliper Root Control | High Caliper Growing

The patented, original Root Control Bag from High Caliper Growing is a soft fabric container that helps with the process of growing and transplanting trees. Click here to learn more about a Root Control Bag that helps you do a better job of growing and transplanting trees.

treebag.com

I just tried field-growing a few Scot's pines myself. And the roots are very long. Making it very hard to dig them out or replant them.
It seems most of the details are in those links I provided. But any grow bag method seems to me to going to be superior to no grow bag.

Even if not for bonsai quality but saving time, the 5 to 10 minutes it takes to dig up a grow bag vs the potential hour or more time it takes to dig up a large field-grown pine, considering you have 450, you really want grow bags.
Imagine saving literally 450 hours of time by spending a few dollars per hour.

 

[tkroeker]

For all these things, check out the Telperion Farms podcasts:

Telperion Farms | Bonsai Mirai: Asymmetry

In this episode of Asymmetry, Ryan sits down with Telperion Farms owner Chris Kirk and his collaborator Gary Woods to dive into the intricacies of field-grown bonsai material. They discuss the nuances of timing, preparing the material before it’s planted in the field, adding movement, pruning...

bonsaimirai.podbean.com

How to Ground Grow the Telperion Way

I’ve learned a lot about ground growing. And by learning a lot, I mean I’ve killed a lot of trees (as I look over at my dying Scots pine…). 10 years in the ground for many of my trees now so a few are just looking like something worth digging since they were all planted as saplings. Shout out...

forum.bonsaimirai.com

P

Post in thread 'Field Growing in Grow Bags'

Nov 30, 2019

Telperion Farms use grow bags, and Ryan Neal loves to buy their material. The topic is covered in an episode of the podcast Asymmetry. I recommend giving it a listen. They are seeing idententical growth rates as growing without the bags, but the root system is more compact and easier to transition to a pot. Their speculation is that you get the microbiome and even moisture benefits despite the restricted volume of roots.

‎Bonsai Mirai: Asymmetry on Apple Podcasts

‎Arts · 2024

podcasts.apple.com

• Punky

• 

Root Control Bag | High Caliper Root Control | High Caliper Growing

The patented, original Root Control Bag from High Caliper Growing is a soft fabric container that helps with the process of growing and transplanting trees. Click here to learn more about a Root Control Bag that helps you do a better job of growing and transplanting trees.

treebag.com

I just tried field-growing a few Scot's pines myself. And the roots are very long. Making it very hard to dig them out or replant them.
It seems most of the details are in those links I provided. But any grow bag method seems to me to going to be superior to no grow bag.

Even if not for bonsai quality but saving time, the 5 to 10 minutes it takes to dig up a grow bag vs the potential hour or more time it takes to dig up a large field-grown pine, considering you have 450, you really want grow bags.
Imagine saving literally 450 hours of time by spending a few dollars per hour.

so, grow bags now or 4 years ago when started?

 

[Glaucus]

Well, do you have a time machine? Seems to me that every tree you end up digging up, you want to replant in a grow bag. Not telling you to dig up all your 450 pines just to put them in grow bags this autumn.

Just sharing the Telperion Farms info that's out there.

 

[tkroeker]

..