Saving a grape vine from the scrap heap

[Catagonia]

Hi, first time posting. and less than 6 months killing trees practicing bonsai. I live in Sacramento, CA, (zone 9b), so winter is mild and mostly sunny.

We removed a 15-year-old grape vine from our yard as part of redoing a section, and I thought perhaps I could try chopping it down to try converting it to bonsai. Because it was just part of a larger project, I didn't choose the timing on this.

After brutally severing it from its larger roots and ripping it from our sodden clay soil, I put what was left in a plastic container with a potting soil/cactus soil mix below it and all cactus soil around the root ball. (It's what I had on hand.) My thinking was to wait until spring to see if it survives, then chop the trunk and see if I can make something of it. It doesn't have much movement toward the bottom, but it is pretty thick.

Questions:

Is there really any chance it will live, or should I toss it on the scrap heap now and save time?

Should I cut off some of the upper portion now, chop it fully, or leave it alone through the winter? We do get high winds, but I could anchor it to keep it stable, if keeping the top portion will aid its survival.

It was originally buried up to where the bark is trimmed off. Should I cover it that far up for the winter?

Is there a different type of container or medium that would promote its survival?

Any other tips?

Thanks!

 

[Catagonia]

Hi, first time posting. and less than 6 months killing trees practicing bonsai. I live in Sacramento, CA, (zone 9b), so winter is mild and mostly sunny.

We removed a 15-year-old grape vine from our yard as part of redoing a section, and I thought perhaps I could try chopping it down to try converting it to bonsai. Because it was just part of a larger project, I didn't choose the timing on this.

After brutally severing it from its larger roots and ripping it from our sodden clay soil, I put what was left in a plastic container with a potting soil/cactus soil mix below it and all cactus soil around the root ball. (It's what I had on hand.) My thinking was to wait until spring to see if it survives, then chop the trunk and see if I can make something of it. It doesn't have much movement toward the bottom, but it is pretty thick.

Questions:

Is there really any chance it will live, or should I toss it on the scrap heap now and save time?

Should I cut off some of the upper portion now, chop it fully, or leave it alone through the winter? We do get high winds, but I could anchor it to keep it stable, if keeping the top portion will aid its survival.

It was originally buried up to where the bark is trimmed off. Should I cover it that far up for the winter?

Is there a different type of container or medium that would promote its survival?

Any other tips?

Thanks!

Can this be deleted please, a second version went through.

 

[Potawatomi13]

As mentioned these bleed profusely. Normally pruned very early before growth. However yours just dug/potted so any cutback for one year or more(jostling)will destroy new roots attempting establishment. Very bad for plant. WAIT, watch, do not over water, allow to grow wild at least until 2023 for sake of roots.

 

[Catagonia]

Thanks @Potawatomi13! That makes sense to me.

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

I'd grow it for Wine!

Sorce

 

[Catagonia]

Sadly the local raccoon family gets the grapes before we do... every year. They don't mind if they're a little under-ripe. The grapevine used to be right outside our bedroom window, so we spied on them while they chowed down at night. The babies are adorable.

 

[Catagonia]

It lives!




Most of the growth is high up (makes sense, I had been keeping the growth up top). Guess I will get to practice my air layering.

 

[19Mateo83]

Nice!

 

[Potawatomi13]

When cutback time comes perhaps these back bud well?

 

[Vali]

Grapevine back bud without a problem. You shouldn't worry about that. I think you should tie it really well because it will grow and the wind will harm it a lot.

In autumn 2019 I chopped 5 like the one in the picture, none of them had any issues with it. I dug this one out of the ground in spring 2020 and planted it in another spot, under a tree in the garden. I'm not 100% sure, but I don't remember it having any roots when I planted it. The pictures are from march 25, this year

 

[dtreesj]

As a grape grower, I don't think they can bonsai. Still they are fun to grow, and you get grapes.

I've had vines grow more than 10 feet in a year. They grow like crazy once established. There's really no keeping a healthy grape vine small.

Edit: well, google shows me people have done it. Though they don't look very bonsai to me.

 

[dtreesj]

As I suspected, it's really a standard grape plant in a pot. I kind of want to do one now, though.

You end up with a stump that you keep pruning the branches off of, which is the normal pruning method for grape production. I cut mine back to two buds every year, which is pretty standard and removes nearly all the previous year's growth.

 

[Vali]

As a grape grower, I don't think they can bonsai. Still they are fun to grow, and you get grapes.

I've had vines grow more than 10 feet in a year. They grow like crazy once established. There's really no keeping a healthy grape vine small.

Edit: well, google shows me people have done it. Though they don't look very bonsai to me.

Walter Pall has an interesting one.

 

[dtreesj]

Walter Pall has an interesting one.

Yeah, saw that one. You can get a really impressive trunk, but keeping any ramification on it is the hard part.

With that particular tree as an example, you can see what happens with the branches.

 

[rockm]

As a grape grower, I don't think they can bonsai. Still they are fun to grow, and you get grapes.

I've had vines grow more than 10 feet in a year. They grow like crazy once established. There's really no keeping a healthy grape vine small.

Edit: well, google shows me people have done it. Though they don't look very bonsai to me.

Grape bonsai are not all that uncommon. John Naka had some. Nick Lenz' is at the Pacific Bonsai Museum. Some varieties are better than others. Wild grape doesn't work well, but some do. Like most vining plants used for bonsai-wisteria, bittersweet, etc., they really don't produce "traditional" bonsai-most vining plants have to be kind of large to accommodate their habits and are most impressive with large to huge trunks...you have to shift expectations.

Fourth photo down:

Gallery

www.santabarbarabonsai.org

Grape Vine Bonsai

Looking for ideas and inspiration… A little history on this specimen, it’s a 30 year old vine that was growing in the yard of the house where my wife grew up. Last year my mother-in-law wanted to remove the vine and dug it up. It was growing along a chain-link fence in the yard where she wanted...

forum.bonsaimirai.com

Grape - Bonsai BCI

www.bonsai-bci.com

 

[dtreesj]

Grape bonsai are not all that uncommon. John Naka had some. Nick Lenz' is at the Pacific Bonsai Museum. Some varieties are better than others. Wild grape doesn't work well, but some do. Like most vining plants used for bonsai-wisteria, bittersweet, etc., they really don't produce "traditional" bonsai-most vining plants have to be kind of large to accommodate their habits and are most impressive with large to huge trunks...you have to shift expectations.

Fourth photo down:

Gallery

www.santabarbarabonsai.org

Grape Vine Bonsai

Looking for ideas and inspiration… A little history on this specimen, it’s a 30 year old vine that was growing in the yard of the house where my wife grew up. Last year my mother-in-law wanted to remove the vine and dug it up. It was growing along a chain-link fence in the yard where she wanted...

forum.bonsaimirai.com

Grape - Bonsai BCI

www.bonsai-bci.com

You've got me to change my mind.

I really want to make one now. I might as well since I have a million cuttings every year.

 

[Vali]

Yeah, saw that one. You can get a really impressive trunk, but keeping any ramification on it is the hard part.

With that particular tree as an example, you can see what happens with the branches.

View attachment 428772

Ramification might not be the interesting part of a grapevine bonsai. I think that the most interesting part of this kind of material would be the trunk. At least that's how I see it at the moment.

 

[dtreesj]

Ramification might not be the interesting part of a grapevine bonsai. I think that the most interesting part of this kind of material would be the trunk. At least that's how I see it at the moment.

Yeah, sorry. Just thinking as a newbie. I thought it couldn't be done because I had thought of doing it myself a long time ago, and I could just imagine people saying "that's not a real bonsai because x y and z is wrong with it" so I didn't do it.

 

[Catagonia]

I think you should tie it really well because it will grow and the wind will harm it a lot

Thanks! This one was extremely vigorous before I uprooted it. It made it through some nasty wind over the winter, with no vines or leaves, but I hadn’t thought about its (lack of) aerodynamics once starts growing. We do get regular strong winds.

I also kept a few cuttings from my other grapevine and just shoved them into an unoccupied Earthbox and 4 of the 5 are showing signs of life. Those are much smaller with no trunk to speak of, and destined to go in the ground, possibly to cover a pergola we’re thinking of getting built.