Sapling Division: Yamabudoudanshi's thread: J. Larch/Trident Maple forests

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Here are my two planned forests for the future.

Forest #1:
Japanese Larch: I have been collecting young larches since spring. Most of them were purchased from online from Yahoo Auction and Mercari. Larches are surprisingly rare and mostly only found in northern Japan. To the best of my knowledge, they are all very young. I've just applied some wire to drop some of the potential primary branches down. Other than that, the extending buds were cut back 3 or 4 times over the growing season to get them to invest more energy lower in the trees.

Tried to get two more larches recently and asked for a few taller ones from a tree nursery in Fukushima. While they are taller, they are really no thicker unfortunately. You'll see they have lost all the needles long ago as Fukushima is significantly colder than Tokyo this time of year.

My plan for now is to assemble the first 7 or 8 smaller ones as a group and leave space for 2 larger trees. Over the next growing season, or two I plan to cut back the two larger trees, pick a new leader, and fertilize heavy letting parts of the trees run to build some caliper. Then, hopefully on the next repotting they might be significantly fatter and ready to join the group.

Forest#2:
Trident maples: About this time last year I started cold stratifying about 30 Trident Maple seeds I got online. I think all 30 have popped and grown: some better than others. There are a few locally collected J. Maple seedlings in the tray as well.

My plan come early spring is to split op the tray. Some seedlings will stay in the tray, some will move into other pots, trays, colanders, etc. and will be given slightly different care (light/fertilizer) in an attempt to gain greater variation in sizes/thicknesses. Some trees will also be developed as individuals.

No pot for this one yet, but I am planning on a natural looking slab.

Sorry for the horrible phone photos. I'll try to dust off my camera when something exciting happens.

 

[Kanorin]

From the few that I have seen, Larch have great forest potential!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Nice starters. I like the tray you are using for the larches.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Nice starters. I like the tray you are using for the larches.

Thanks. It's apparently unused as was sitting in a shed for 30+ years. I've looked up the name and seen a few others but nobody seems to know who the potter is.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Update on forest 1:

I pruned, and wired a few branches on and placed 9 of the J.Larches in the pot today in a mix of 50% akadama, 20% kiryu, 15% kanuma, and 15%spagnum. I have found this mix to work really well with these larch. Also built a retaining wall with a mix of keto, akadama, and spagnum to create a little more variation in the topography and hold in more soil.
I still have 2 other saplings in a larger pot that I hope to thicken which will be the future "King" and "Queen" of this forest. If you have an eye for this, you can probably guess where they will go.
I will probably end up adding a few more smaller trees to fill in the negative space as the group matures.
Looks like did this just in time, as most trees had a few green buds already, and the forecast is looking warm.
Horrible pictures as usual, but try and use your imagination.
Cheers.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Update on forest #2: Pulled up all of the trident seedlings from their tray and took the tap root off of all of them. Some of them have been put through boards as individuals, and clumps. Others have been put into slit pots, colanders, and some went back in the original tray.

These pictures are from last month. Tree's are all popping buds/leaves now. I'll post an update once they really get rocking.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Update on forest 1:

The 9 larches in the group seem to be doing very well, and thanks to the freakishly early spring we're having, are completely full already.
I've applied some moss to the keto wall and basically just kept it watered. This season, I'm just going to focus on trying the get the energy in each tree more balanced by cutting back apical growth and start building some primary structure.

The other 2 tall larches that I left out are still in another container. Over the winter I took the tops off and pined up a new leader. The removed tops I took as hardwood cuttings and they're budding out in the same pot. If they make it, they'll eventually go in as mid/background trees. This season, I'm going to fertilize the big ones as much as I can and let certain branches run in an attempt to build some girth. I'm hoping they can join the planting at the next repot, or two.

Still working on my photography, but they actually look quite good in person. They looked better two weeks ago before they got so bushy.

Pics are all dated.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Update on forest 2:

All of the tridents are doing well and seem to be pushing a second set of leaves now. The ones in the boards and slit pots are doing especially well and are pushing roots out the sides/bottom of the pots. These pots have become all the rage lately among Japanese growers, and I'm glad to be giving them a try. They drain incredibly well.

Some of them are in direct sun and being fertilized heavily and others are in partial sun/shade being fertilized less/not at all. This is all in an attempt to gain as much size variation as possible. Not an easy feat growing on a veranda, but I'm trying.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Update on forest #1: The larches are doing really well. I did some vigorous tip pruning/energy redirection today. Believe it or not, this is already the 4th or 5th time I've had to cut this much off these trees. They just keep pushing and pushing, although the growth is much more balanced than it was last year.

Some of the trees are starting to develop some ramification up top, while I've been letting some of the low sacrificial branches run way out for girth.

At this rate, I'll have to do this job another 3 or 4 times before Fall.

Additionally, the zip ties I had holding up the leaders on the two bigger trees were digging in and had to be removed. I replaced them with a bit of light wire to hold them up.


Update of forest #2: I don't have any new pictures, but I haven't been having the best luck with the trident maples. I lost quite a few in a tray to a fungus of some sort. I may have been able to save a few, but they are basically budding out from a stub so I'll have to wait and see.

Additionally, I seem to always run into this with maples, but they always seem to have a false Autumn under my care: This push out foliage (1 or 2 flushes) in early Spring, and then basically freeze in time for a few months. The leaves harden off, and turn red, and eventually brown. Then, around now (rainy season) most of them start pushing new growth again like a second Spring. This also appears to be happening with the Japanese maples that I sowed at the same time.

I'm not sure if this is due to them being seedlings or what, but I don't see this on more mature tridents at nurseries in my area.

Anyhow, I don't have the numbers I would like, so I'm going to procure a second set of seeds to sow next Spring. This might actually work out better having 2 years between batches. This way I'll have more variation in size.

Funny how the only species I seem to have issues with are the "easiest" ones in my collection. Oh well.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Update on forest 2:

The remaining 10 tridents were in full dark red fall colors and starting to lose leaves quickly. I stripped the remaining leaves off, chopped the largest 4 in the slit pots way back and sealed the wounds.

Additionally, since winter hardwood cuttings seem to be the only kind I have any luck with, I made some cuttings out of what I chopped off and stuck them in the colander with the other 6 smaller trees. If even a few take, it will get me much closer to my forest.

Additionally, I counted up all of the trident seeds I've collected from the local park and it looks like soon, I'll have more than I know what to do with. Overall, I'm pretty happy with the caliper I've been able to put on some of these trees this year. The ones in the slit pots have grown especially well.

I'll make an update on the larches once the needles have fallen. They are still completely green. I'm still contemplating adding the main trees to the planting and will probably try a few more hardwood cuttings from them one I reduce the branching a bit more later this winter.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

And we're off!

Soon, I'll have more tridents than I know what to do with.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Update on forest #1: Pulled off the remaining foliage even though much of it was still green. Did some cutting back and branch reduction and cut back the hights on a few of the outside trees to adjust for the canopy profile I'm looking to achieve. Also did some light wiring into the primaries to try and achieve a more aged look from the trees.

It's nice to see the efforts of my trying to tame the apical dominance over the past season are starting to show. Going forward, I'm going to continue to do this in hopes of achieving heavier branches down low, and thinner, more delicate ones up top, as they tend to want to do the opposite.

Trees #10 and #11 (the biggest two) are going to be joining the group this spring just as the buds begin to move.

Additionally, I took about 7 or 8 hardwood cuttings with the stuff I took off. I had 1 take from last year, so some additional small trees to fill in gaps woul be great.

 

[Kanorin]

I don't know if this is typical of how larch grow or if you have a great pruning regimen, but it's great that you have so much low branching already starting on those larch. Nice start!

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Spring update on forest #1:

Dug a few holes and wired the two big larches in where I planned. I also found a nice spot for one of the old apexes that rooted. I was pretty happy with how many roots I found in the pot, but it made it tough to get the new trees in. Currently, there are 12 trunks.

Hard to capture in a photo, but I'm also pretty happy with the overall look. It's starting to get the eerie, Dr. Suess look I'm going for. It looks much better in 3 dimentions.

Going forward:
-Continue pruning for energy balance and better ramication to build more secondary/tertiary branching.
-Take more small cuttings and use them to fill in the forest.
-Continue to let a few branches on each of the main trees run for the entire season to build a bit of caliper, while taking the aformentioned pruning routine with the others.

Enjoy.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Rainy day update:

Forest 1: Budding out nicely. Also swapped out the original moss with a new top dressing of finally chopped sphagnum and collected moss. Hoping it's nice and green by summer.

Forest 2: Getting some spring growth. Some trees are stronger than others. Trying to get a strong leader on the trees to start building a second section of trunk. Appears that some of my winter cuttings may have actually taken? I dare say most of them... Probably too early to say.

A dismal total of 2/215 of the trident seeds I stratified actually germinated, and both have an odd leaf shape. Seems like the 300+ J. Maple seeds had a close to 95% success rate, so I can only assume that the trident parent trees just don't produce viable seeds. If these cuttings take off I shouldn't need anymore to get the group going anyway.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Fall Update:
Forest 1: Larches have continued doing their thing. Very hot summer, with almost no monsoon season, so I didn't get as many flushes as last year. Lost a couple tops and low branches too, but I think that will add to the character of the group over time. Planning on stripping some bark and preserving some deadwood once the needles fall.

Going into next year, I have 1 more cutting that I plan to add to the group. I'll probably give it one more year before I attempt a full repot as the soil still seems to be draining well. Additionally, there are a few trees I want to train taller to really establish the profile of the group better.

Forest 2: Tridents have bounced back from the first chop pretty well, and I had to cut a few sacrifice branches back to keep thickness in check. For straight boring forest trees they're coming along quite well.

Still a grand total of 2/215 trident seeds germinated for me. Additionally, a few of the winter cuttings I took survived the summer, so I have a grand total of 15 or so to work with so far.
I plan on cutting most of them back for another section of trunk and smoothing out the first cuts to blend the taper better. Then, one more year on their own to 'finish' the trunks and I think I'll bring them together in a group in a tray or something for spring of 2014.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Winter update of forest 2:

Cleaned up the wounds on the first cuts, and chopped the new sacrificial leaders down to a segment or two above the first chop on most trees.
Seems a grand total of 3 or 4 of my winter cuttings from last time survived the growing season, which is better luck than I have with spring cuttings, so I took a bunch more with everything usable I cut off and stuck them in the colander.

Also have another 215 seeds cold stratifying in the fridge right now, which I'm sure some of them will make it into the group. I predict I'll have better luck with germination rates this time, as I waiting a little longer to collect.

Forest 1 is still turning yellow, but I'll get a picture of it once it's naked.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Finally pulled the remaining old needles off the larch group. Along with routine branch pruning, I decided the two main trees are a bit too tall for the look I'm going for, not to meantion the other trees in the group. I took them down to a new apex and adjusted the heights on some of the others as well. I also applied some wire to the trunks as the trees didn't really look like they belonged together.

Not really a choice, but the far right tree on the left group (tree closest to the center) died this summer. I'm planning on leaving it in the group as long as I can. I hope it will add some age to the group.

I'm really starting to like the look of the group. Still taking winter cuttings as I can and hope to add a few more small trees to the group come next repotting.
I don't seem to have any luck keeping nice moss alive where I want it, but I'm hoping to re-moss this whole planting soon as well.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Update:

Forest 1: After 3 years of Tokyo summers the larches called it quits.
This year in particular was the perfect storm. It was super hot, there was almost no rainy season to speak of, and the larches were attacked by a fungus that I couldn't get rid of despite my best efforts.
What started as 2 trees gone progressed to 3 more, and before I know it the whole group was toast. Pretty sad for me as it's one of the projects I've been working on the longest. Needless to say I won't be trying them again in this climate. RIP

Forest 2: The tridents on the other hand have been doing fine. I lost one of the original trees to a pervasive root fungus thing, but other than that growth has been fine. I let the trees in the colanders run, as well as the two that germinated last year. Seems a few of the cuttings in the long colander survived the whole summer as well. We are still clearing 30 degrees C nearly every day and the trees are still growing. I plan on repeated last year, but cutting back to another new trunk leader and taking winter cuttings where I can.
Then, this coming spring, I'm planning on assembling the first iteration of the actual forest.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Update: Finally put the forest together. Not an great picture as usual. Must more interesting and 3D looking in person. Pretty happy with it. They've been pruned back to a somewhat pleasing profile so far, but there's lot's of room for improvement. From here on out the plan is to let the main tree run again while building some branches/new leaders on others. I think theres somewhere between 17-18 trees all together. Exited to see it all leafed out.