Quickest Success intro to real Bonsai

[Keithconn]

Just getting back into it myself, I’d like to hear from some of the experts with the history and know how.

question: what is the quickest way to get into ‘real’ bonsai, with a rewarding success rate? To be clear I don’t mean ordering or purchasing some bonsai plants and putting them on a shelf. I mean, should one goto a local nursery and find some interesting plant to start working on? Dig up some stuff in the woods? Steal some Azalea from the neighbors (kidding), or hit last years x-mas tree lot?

Seriously though. What would you recommend to someone wanting to get their hands dirty, work on daily tasks, and get to use some wire and scissors???

thanks in advance! All the best!

 

[Kodama]

All of the above.. plus join a local club.

 

[River's Edge]

what is the quickest way to get into ‘real’ bonsai, with a rewarding success rate?

training and practice. Your choice as to what makes sense within your budget and available time. the better the level of training and the more practice, the better the success rate.

 

[Mikecheck123]

I think it's useful to have trees in all stages of development so you can practice everything.

Some beginners get a twig and are disappointed that they're doing nothing but waiting for it to grow.

 

[Keithconn]

training and practice. Your choice as to what makes sense within your budget and available time. the better the level of training and the more practice, the better the success rate.

Frank, thanks for the wise words. The nursery looks amazing!! Wish I wasn’t 3k miles away or I’d visit.

 

[Keithconn]

I think it's useful to have trees in all stages of development so you can practice everything.

Some beginners get a twig and are disappointed that they're doing nothing but waiting for it to grow.

Totally agree. I have nursery plants, things dug out of the woods, cuttings, and old neighborhood plants. All the while hoping all don’t die at the same time (haha).

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Welcome Aboard Bonsai Nut @Keithconn !

Here’s what I would do to get my hands dirty.…. In fact it’s sort of what I did myself.

1. Join the nearest club… in your case LIBS ….make lotsa friends who could use help and learn everything you can from them.

2. Get trees and learn all you are able to about their horticulture and pruning techniques. Buy, beg, dig, steal.

a. You mentioned azaleas, these are one of the fastest groups of trees that you can make bonsai. Cheap, available stock…5 years to good if you study and listen to one’s who really work them, 10 years to much better, if you’ve learned well.

b. Junipers are also a good starter. Same characteristics as above.

c. Go to auctions and unload some dinero on decent trees. In that case it would really help to have a friend(s) as mentioned in 1. above.

3. Study. Study. Study. Plenty of avenues here, Eisen-en, Bonsai Mirai, You tube etc

Good luck, and make wise choices

Good Luck and Welcome Aboard once again!

DSD sends

 

[Keithconn]

Welcome Aboard Bonsai Nut @Keithconn !

Here’s what I would do to get my hands dirty.…. In fact it’s sort of what I did myself.

1. Join the nearest club… in your case LIBS make friends who could use help and learn everything you can fron them.

2. Get trees and learn all you are able to about their horticulture and pruning techniques. Buy, beg, dig, steal.

a. You mentioned azaleas, these are one of the fastest groups of trees that you can make bonsai. Cheap, available stock…5 years to good if you study and listen to one’s who really work them, 10 years to much better, if you’ve learned well.

b. Junipers are also a good starter. Same characteristics as above.

c. Go to auctions and unload some dinero on decent trees. In that case it would really help to have a friend(s) as mentioned in 1. above.

3. Study. Study. Study. Plenty of avenues here, Eisen-en, Bonsai Mirai, You tube etc

Good luck, and make wise choices

Good Luck and Welcome Aboard once again!

DSD sends

Thanks so much! Like I said I’m getting back in after 20 years away. I guess it’s like going back to pre school. Thanks again!

 

[rockm]

I wouldn't be so quick to eliminate buying established bonsai and working on them along with the starter projects. It's a sad myth that buying a bonsai is somehow less work, less authentic or just..well, less, than developing all your own trees. Established bonsai are not "finished" no bonsai is. They require particular sets of capabilities and skills to not only care for, but develop, redesign, etc. Their requirements, in fact, are sometimes greater than a stock plant or a newly collected plant. They teach more actual "bonsai skills" than any of those.

 

[Paradox]

Just getting back into it myself, I’d like to hear from some of the experts with the history and know how.

question: what is the quickest way to get into ‘real’ bonsai, with a rewarding success rate? To be clear I don’t mean ordering or purchasing some bonsai plants and putting them on a shelf. I mean, should one goto a local nursery and find some interesting plant to start working on? Dig up some stuff in the woods? Steal some Azalea from the neighbors (kidding), or hit last years x-mas tree lot?

Seriously though. What would you recommend to someone wanting to get their hands dirty, work on daily tasks, and get to use some wire and scissors???

thanks in advance! All the best!

If you're near Port Jefferson, Garden Depot sometimes carries Chinzan azalea that are used frequently for bonsai.

As for fastest way to a real bonsai. Buy the best stock you can. Large trunk with interesting movement, well developed nebari, good branching already developed. This is hard to find at a local garden nursery because trees grown for home landscaping are not grown with bonsai in mind. There is a big difference between the two. But you can get lucky and find something you can use once in a while.

If you don't want to put in the time, then you need to pay money for someone else's time to develop that tree. Otherwise, saddle up and enjoy the ride.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Don't start with the trees... start with obtaining knowledge. The best way to do this is to shadow someone with more experience and learn from them. The pros do this by serving apprenticeships under bonsai masters; a more casual practitioner can join a local club and take lots of workshops.

Without experience, you will get a nice tree and you won't be able to maintain it. WITH experience you can get a crappy tree and turn it into a piece of art!

 

[dbonsaiw]

Great advice here. Knowledge is key, and the more you learn the more you’ll adjust your goals and understanding of what material you want to work with. Hands on experience is a must. My fortune cookie from last night read “failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions”. I would submit that the quickest way forward is to accept that mistakes and failure are part of the path forward. As a newbie, If you’re not experiencing setbacks, you’re not moving forward. I’ll go full Yogi Berra - the quickest way to get into real bonsai is to internalize that there is no quick way into bonsai.

 

[rockm]

Don't start with the trees... start with obtaining knowledge. The best way to do this is to shadow someone with more experience and learn from them. The pros do this by serving apprenticeships under bonsai masters; a more casual practitioner can join a local club and take lots of workshops.

Without experience, you will get a nice tree and you won't be able to maintain it. WITH experience you can get a crappy tree and turn it into a piece of art!

The other side of this is that if you DO get an established bonsai, it will force you to learn --and learn quickly. This motivation increases with the amount spent on an established bonsai and your ability to keep it. Not the path for the faint hearted and one that your spouse will mostly not appreciate. It's doable however. My first $300 tree taught me more, in less time, than any other tree I've had...

 

[River's Edge]

They teach more actual "bonsai skills" than any of those.

LOL
I sense the drift of this, and their is a tendency to focus on refinement as the epicentre of " Bonsai Skills" because it is the window dressing that separates the great from the not so great. Lets not lose sight of the fundamental skills that create the foundation for the " artist" to play.
I believe there is a counter perspective that developing trees teaches just as many " Bonsai skills" and allows one to recognize the great from the not so great.
For those who respond to " quicker results" it can be tempting to ignore the skill and technique invested in the foundation that created the refinement opportunity.
I am one who can fully appreciate the nuances of advanced refinement skills apparent in show trees, but I do recognize that many who can refine are hopeless at developing. Different skill sets that both have value. I also recognize that there is more detail in the process of refinement with pruning and wiring for example.
Just think we should recognize the " artistry" and " skill" that creates for example a near blemish free trunk with size, movement, taper and change of direction that just happens to have primary branches in the desired locations. Now that incorporates Bonsai skills!
Truth be told I find both ends of the spectrum are demanding of attention to detail and higher skill levels.
I think it is an epic duel between enduring patience and practicing perfection. Putting the soap box away now

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Ok, waxing philosophical now I’m stuck in a chair … on extended light duty yet again.

Imho learning the tasks, techniques and nuances involved with basic horticultural care, as well as, tree propagation, initial growth, primary development, secondary development and refinement phases are all valid tools for one to have in their bonsai toolbox. One is just working on different areas within a spectrum of bonsai knowledge.

I am lucky to be able work throughout many parts of the bonsai spectrum, one day perhaps taking cuttings, caring for whips, and wiring primary structure into trees, while the next finds me wiring and setting the nth levels of ramification on a 5’ juniper museum tree to present it for public display.

Down in the trenches one day, working at the highest levels the next.

Yet, to me, each skill or process has equal standing, while learning the myriad parts and processes of bonsai creates a greater whole over time, perhaps a growing gestalt, within. This is the most rewarding part of the journey for me.

And sometimes I read these posts, see the photos folks post over time and feel (hopefully not presumptuously) I can see the same happening to them.

Its human nature to prefer certain tasks more then others. There is a certain thrill to see folks positively assessing your work in a public setting. There is also a thrill to seeing a sick tree you’ve spent three years on recover and flourish again. Or to see 350 first year cuttings survive the winter.

So which phase of bonsai does one learn the most doing….? All of the above.

Where should one start first, …..with the basics.

Ok, done here!

cheers
DSD sends

 

[rockm]

LOL
I sense the drift of this, and their is a tendency to focus on refinement as the epicentre of " Bonsai Skills" because it is the window dressing that separates the great from the not so great. Lets not lose sight of the fundamental skills that create the foundation for the " artist" to play.
I believe there is a counter perspective that developing trees teaches just as many " Bonsai skills" and allows one to recognize the great from the not so great.
For those who respond to " quicker results" it can be tempting to ignore the skill and technique invested in the foundation that created the refinement opportunity.
I am one who can fully appreciate the nuances of advanced refinement skills apparent in show trees, but I do recognize that many who can refine are hopeless at developing. Different skill sets that both have value. I also recognize that there is more detail in the process of refinement with pruning and wiring for example.
Just think we should recognize the " artistry" and " skill" that creates for example a near blemish free trunk with size, movement, taper and change of direction that just happens to have primary branches in the desired locations. Now that incorporates Bonsai skills!
Truth be told I find both ends of the spectrum are demanding of attention to detail and higher skill levels.
I think it is an epic duel between enduring patience and practicing perfection. Putting the soap box away now

I don't really get the vitriol (LOL?) or the point here. Seems you have some kind of ax to grind. I never said anything about the "epicentre of bonsai skills" or that fundamental skills have been forgotten. Logically, your post is a train wreck. You said refinement skills are 'window dressing' yet somehow they still have value and they DO teach some valuable things that working on developing stock won't. So it's mostly a distinction without a difference. Find another punching bag...

 

[BrianBay9]

If I had no barriers in time and money, I would find a bonsai professional that has trees that I admire. I would then arrange for regular time with them, at their place, to work on raw stock, intermediate developed trees and refined trees. If possible buy the stock and trees from them, but leave them in professional care at first. Do this for a year or two. Result = in depth knowledge and several trees at various stages on their journey.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

I don't really get the vitriol (LOL?) or the point here. …….. Find another punching bag...

Whoa. Interesting response. Please recall posts have no affect and folks do have a right to their own opinion.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[rockm]

Whoa. Interesting response. Please recall posts have no affect and folks do have a right to their own opinion.

Cheers
DSD sends

You mean the response to the "LOL" followed by the condescending response to my opinion? Yeah, not sure why you're surprised.

 

[Cajunrider]

Just getting back into it myself, I’d like to hear from some of the experts with the history and know how.

question: what is the quickest way to get into ‘real’ bonsai, with a rewarding success rate? To be clear I don’t mean ordering or purchasing some bonsai plants and putting them on a shelf. I mean, should one goto a local nursery and find some interesting plant to start working on? Dig up some stuff in the woods? Steal some Azalea from the neighbors (kidding), or hit last years x-mas tree lot?

Seriously though. What would you recommend to someone wanting to get their hands dirty, work on daily tasks, and get to use some wire and scissors???

thanks in advance! All the best!

I don't know if my bonsai learning process is even fast but here is what I am doing. First I selected a few species that are fit for bonsai in my zone then I do the following.
1. Improve my knowledge in horticulture on the species: Soil, propagation methods (air, ground layer, grafting etc..).
2. Get in the ground phase of making bonsai trees from store bought plants, collected trees, rescue trees.
After about 2 years of doing 1 & 2, I now have some pre-bonsais that I can learn refinement plus I am pretty confident that I can keep alive indefinitely pre-bonsai trees of a few selected species. Now I can use my pre-bonsai trees or buy a few more so I can continue to improve my refinement skills. BTW for me refinement means learning to wire, shape, bend, ramify, make jin, pot selection, tree placement, nebari development (on and on.... so many subjects)

I plan to extend to more species as I get better at the current selected species.
PS: Dang it, I rambled on and on when all I have to do is pointing to the pinned post of how to be a successful bonsai beginner.
*Pointing up: Do what he said!*